Yes, we will. The capitalistic marketplace will follow the money to a different solution. But it will need to be cost-effective and all the options we currently have are more expensive than gasoline powered internal combustion. but we'll find a way. We always do.

I hope not, but everything we know , every little bit of western social life relies on petrol.

My cart and ox was a joke, eg the lol, but what is to replace air travel. "electric planes" powered by fission reactors.

A world built on petrochemicals is doomed to end, and we haven't thought of technology to replace it.

Relax, Marcus. If we had to, we could run everything on ethanol. It would take some modification, but we could. Modification costs money, and we don't want to spend the money.

We are "hooked" on petroleum-based fuels because they provide fairly high energy per liter and they are easily transportable. It's convenient. Once it gets costly there are many other things that will work. Brazil is running on renewable ethanol right now.

Agreed. Now all we need is for people to regain the backbone that made our nation great and pour all of our resources into accomplishing it.

If we can create railroads and roads that crisscross the country, we can change our cars.

And IMHO, we shouldn't just go part of the way with hybrids - no, I say we go all the way with electrics.



Well, I seem to be stuck on Earth for over twenty years, without it becoming a nightmare. I had a relative that loved to be over a hundred, and she didn't describe Earth as a nightmare.

I wouldn't describe Earth as a paradise - it's full of problems. But it seems I can manage to get through it with my head on straight.

Obviously hell is going to be worse than Earth, but the point is just because there's a lot of troubles for a long period of time doesn't mean you're automatically going to go insane.

In any case, even if I'm wrong, as I've said on the other thread, we send ourselves there. So apparently we are the ultimate evil, not God.

I disagree. George Walker Bush, Osama bin Laden, Benjamin Netanyahu, Kim Jong Il. Korean Dictator are not that dangerous except maybe for Putin. Though they all have power...it is limited. Their actions are monitored and in many ways scutinized by other countries and media networks.

Especially in the US, most modern presidents have to deal with world issues and conflicts that impact America only because of the consequences of greedy corporations. Heck...corporations have already brought the presidency...we given a choice of 2-3 people. Some descent average Joe will never amass enough money to campaign.
In wars countries go further debt, but companies rake in the dough...from funerals...to all the companies that involve in building sophisticated weaponry. Corporations will squeezing pennies from starving thirdworld children and they don't give a f*** which people they stomp on. The greed and the bottom line don't discriminate, no matter what color, age, people, or country (as long as you're not a significant shareholder).

I think it is the board members of the largest corporations in the world are the most dangerous. Such as Monsanto (agriculuture/biotech seeds); Federated Department Stores (Macy's, Bloomingdale's, Foley's); Merck, Pfizer (pharmaceuticals), electronics companies, Procter & Gamble (consumer goods), and off course multimedia networks. Many brand names you know are actually own by more obsure company names...like Pizza Hut and Taco Bell belong to Yum! foods.

A hypothetical example...Macy wants 5 tons of shirts in Burma by 7 months. They subcontract to the lowest bidder knowing fully well at that low price...it not enough for a typical factor worker to support his family, but they turn a blind eye. So what happens? That subcontractor whom have even less morals than Macy...hires any desperate able bodies (there are many desperate able bodies...and they're expendible...that included kids, young adults, whoever. These people work 80hrs a week, basically force to lived in cramp filthy quarters near the factories. Of course their rent, water, utilities, uniforms, are all deducted from their meager salaries whether they lived there or not. If some got stick from the flumes, chemical dyes, well we just let them go and bring in the next desperate soul. Current American laws mandate that Macy inspect the health and welfare of it's subcontracter workers. So Macy does a quarterly inspection that last about 5hrs or a day. The subcontracter simply threaten it workers to smile say nice things, clean up the place, or bring in healthy children for a day. Now if some brave reporter managage to break the story. Macy will simply claimed...it had no idea and will find another subcontracter. How you think these people feel about American companies and America afterwards?
Let's stay some rich Islamic extremist open a free school in this same area where most of the people are too poor to enable their kids to go to elementary, or any school. THey provide basic grammer, language and teach why America are the devils and must be rid of. Interesting chain of events.

All of the EU or pretty much Europe ban genetically modified food, meat, milk...yet the FDA says it safe...no harmful evidence (yet). Speaking of milk...you ever wonder about all those milk ads on tv, magazines, everywhere. That's Expensive for a milk company. The govt sure isn't paying for it. Milk companies aren't known for raking in money. What if milk is a final result of a company's product say rBGH (growth hormone)? The reporters that broke story of rBGH were fired...because monsanto's advertisement make significant income for the station.


With agriculture...in many third world countries there's just too many middlemen. Let say Starbucks wants 5 tons of coffee beans a day from a country it doesn't want to deal with thousands of individual farmers. It want to make a contract to one or two people. So coffee beans has to go through a dozen middlemen before a sufficently large quanity is matched. THat means the individual farmers are paid pennies per pound and that price goes up and down on a daily basis with the stock market. Starbucks could spend some time and effort send a representative...tell farmers to gather their friends and farmers and purchase directly from them at 20cent per pound instead of pennies. Cut out the middlemen. Usually it a 20-50cent difference that enable's a third world farmer to put meat on the table more frequently and school for his kids.

Corporations only look at the short term...10 year profits. They don't concern themselves with collateral damage, people, or environment...buy cheap land in some thirdworld country and dump toxic outdated electronics there...so what if the rain washes mercury, cadmium down some river that reaches a village. So what if the weather patterns are increasingly chaotic around the USA? There's money to be made...like taking candy from a baby.

I am a big supporter of capitalism, but it needs to instil in its roots some humanity and morals because the long term consequences are going to affect us all. There's a good way to do business and there's the used car salesmen approach. Stardock isn't out there to make a quick dollar, Stardock actually listens to its users.

we are winning.
Those poor stupid fools, working for £15 a month. making our goods.

I call that a win. don't you. this is capitalism at work, the western dream striving forward delivering cheap somethings to us.

Do we care that some kid in some shitty hole we never heard about loses his chance at education?

**** him and his chances as long as as we get our stuff at a competitive price.

Who gives a ****, there not our kids.

But what if they were?

Marcus, please be more careful with your language.

A sad truth is that the crummy job they get in the sweatshop is better than no job and hunger. These people are not being driven into slavery - they are fleeing abject poverty.

Do we find their working conditions acceptable? No. I don't find 8 people living in 400 square feet acceptable, either. As they get more opportunities and more jobs, which are created by our demand for goods, their standard of living will increase. We are the solution, not the problem. It just takes time.

Correction: We hypothesize that the world isn't created in seven days. Unfortunately, our distant past is one of those things that cannot be directly examined, so what we have are all kinds of guesses as to what really happened.



Unfortunately, such a thing is impractical - there are always those who will mess things up .

As I have said before, maybe not here. But, their president is obsesed with power, and doesnt want to use it. Sure he a maniac but he isnt stupid.

Now what I see happening might be a nuclear terrorist attack but that is also very unlikely. Its just too hard and risky to giver over a nuclear weapon to terrorist with little scientific knowledge. For all you know the might accidently detonate it while still in Iran.

No,

Israel is of course not beeing provocated as her neighbours knows Israels military is powerful enough to wipe them all out. What would be the use to provoke such a powerful neighbour?

It is of course the other way around.
It is Israels that is continuously provoking her neighbouring countries by cutting of roads, using powerful weapons destroying entire buildings because of what the Israel states , MIGHT hold terrorists ... Why not just sending over a squad of elite soliders to elinimate the terrorists then?
Becouse demolishing the building using Tanks and Artillery is more PROVOKING as it most certainly also kills many civilizans.

By provoking her neighbouring countries, witch of course responds promptly to this kind of provokation, the Israeli goverment creates a feel of urgency in its own people.
A sence that "enemy is everywere and absolute loyalty and dedication from the people is needed and everyone disagreeing or asking questions can be considered a terorist".

Well, of course the enemy is there! It´s just that the enemy is created by Israel itself. The situation is not entirely different from the situation US is having in Iraq.

US desperately need a reason to stay so is acting in ways witch actually helps, not hurts, terrorism.
Staying sequres Oil. Oil secures US economy and Economy ensures people get to keep their jobs. As long as the Economy is running well, the common man won´t mind that much about the fact that iraqis civilizans are beeing killed by the thousands - a fact well known by those beeing in charge.


Not suprisingly thus, an European poll were ordinary European citizens were asked about witch countries they thought were the greatest threats to world peace, showed that accorgind to the Europeans, the biggest threat to world peace is in fact was Israel.
(the top five dangerous included. Israel, North Korea, Iraq, Iran and the USA)

Yes, that is why the US does it all the time, especially in Europe. I mean we even have secret torture centers there, on land we dont even own.



Ofcourse they are interested, what would you do if your people were pushed off their lands just so your greatest enemies could move in and take over.

Plus, its not like Israel is the good guy either, they bombed a UN base in Lebenon during that conflict, a very well marked UN base and killed 3 peacekeepers.

They also bombed several cities and towns killing hundreds and only allowing terrorist groups to encourage more to join because they helped rebuild the cities.



Yes, you are right its the terrorists who are doing the killings, but why are they doing them? Because we are there, because we took over, because the Iraqis now rely on us to protect them. We are causing the carnage there.

And we dont really capture many terrorists before the go boom, then its too late. Most of the terrorists are capture by foreign agencies when they try to cross over into Europe.