I'm pretty sure you have that backwards as Adeenajad,(spelling?) bielieves that the Caliphate is about to appear and he must prepare the way.The moderates in Iran are not happy with his views.

Wrong, wrong, and more wrong.

He is doing nothing of the sort, he temporarily took control of struggling companies, nothing more.

Sure hes a little power hungry, but in the end his power is basically empty. Half the Russian army still answer to localized commanders and if the Federation fell apart again as it did in 1989, Putin would be powerless to stop it. Seccession is a legal act in the new Russian Federation.

Its just the latest on play of Russians vs. Americans. Trust me, it happens every time Democrats take power and the Liberal media has room to shake its bloated ass once more.



Techinically we have even more, but we would never think of using any of them ourselves, we sell them to the terrorist in the hopes that one day the favor will be returned. In my opinion its a much tighter ship then it used to be, now with the whole black market in weaponery and scientific knowhow I think the Russian economy will be nice and prosperous once again.



North Korea is barely a threat, they have nuclear technology, but not rocketry, so in reality they would only be able to use a suitcase WMD's and they dont have the minituralization for that. So in the end North Korea is just a thorn in the worlds side, not a mortal wound.

showing slight muscle to Asian countries is about it. Their current rockets could hit Japan but it will be awhile to hit the States. But I doubt they would ever use NUKES. Its just a deterrant.

Well I have little to add to this. But American readers welll?

Christianity did, for quite a while.

I have said this countless times, it matters what the cultural and industrial tendencies of a certain region is. If it is underveloped and unstable then yes religion will take a more ugly view.

Saying Islam spawns violance for the sake of violance is completely ingnorant.

Just think about it, if it wasnt for Islam we wouldnt have half the math we do now, if it wasnt for Islam there would be no crop irrigation networks, without Islam economics would be a few hundered years behind.



Yes, their last missle fell into the Ocean because of engine malfunction. What is there to say?

Wrong. I can't believe so many people have overlooked this, but hopefully it will put to rest the true source of Islamic extremism. It's not Islam persay, but the socio-political situation endemic in many Middle Eastern countries. Lets look at the 5 countries with the most Muslims:

Indonesia: A secular, multiparty democracy that does not recognize any religion as the state religion, despite being overwhelmingly Muslim. It is worthy to note that it was a dictatorship under Suharto, however NOT one based on religion/Sharia law. Is actually comparatively socially liberal, considering the aforementioned and that Playboy has a franchise in the nation

India: I'm assuming that since they consist of 20% of the population there, the vast majority would be participating in the multiparty democracy there, rather than say - partake in random acts of violence or defect to Pakistan or Bangladesh?

Bangladesh: Another electoral democracy, over 90% of whom are Muslims

Pakistan: I probably would not classify it as a democracy as Musharraf seems unwilling to relinquish power over the military. However, freedom of speech and other civil liberties have not been curtailed to the extent that they have been in Russia (see below).

Turkey: Turkey is 99.8% Muslim. If you've been following the news, there have been massive protests in SUPPORT of Turkey's current secular democratic system over the announcement that Erdogan is considering a run for president. Considering that his party models itself on the conservative "Christian Democratic" parties of Europe, Turkey seems to have a greater separation of church and state than perhaps even than many predominantly Christian democracies. Traditional headscarves are banned if you plan to work for the government; a move that even I find to be excessive. But perhaps most surprising of all: Abortion is legal in Turkey up until the 10th week under all circumstances, after which it is legal when considering the health of a mother.

This doesn't really paint a picture of Islam being some sort of "extremist" religion, considering that 4/5 of these countries are established democracies with friendly ties to the US, and NONE OF THEM follow Sharia Law. I also failed to note that while abortion is normally illegal in Bangladesh, Indonesia, and Pakistan, it is legal in case of the mother's health (a policy position probably supported by a large number of social conservatives in this country). In comparison, Christianity also gets a 4/5 unless you consider being shot in an elevator with a 9mm for dissing Vladimir Putin to be "democratic".

Now, back to the Middle East. While most Muslims in the world actually do live in relatively liberal democracies, the ONLY democracy in the Middle East is Israel, which is obviously predominantly Jewish. All the predominantly Muslim countries have a tendency to be dictatorships that quash internal dissent and pursue or have pursued policies that leave the majority (or large minority) of their citizens dirt poor and bitter towards the government. Not only is this a natural powderkeg for extremism, but you also have to ask yourself, in this case, what would be the best means of organizing an opposition to the government?

Put it under religion, of course, just as in the Crusades! And therein lies the problem: not Islam, but a complete failure of Middle Eastern governments to provide for their people and create an atmosphere that eliminates the incentives for extremism. That's not to say that Islam is a religion of peace, but it's not a religions of war more than any other religion (imo it's all about how the reader interprets the scriptures!). I'm sure that if the Middle East were mostly Christian but as equally as screwed up as it is today, we'd be hearing about Christian suicide bombers, or any other religion for that matter. If you don't believe me just read Deuteronomy.

More on debunking the myth that Islam is inherently more violent and regressive than other religions.

You might be asking... well why does Hamas/Al Qaeda, etc target civilians with suicide bombings, under the justification of religion! That alone shows that there's something wrong with Islam!

Wrong again. You could say that the Japanese performed suicide bombings against American military personnel during WWII for religious reasons (the Kamikaze; dying for the immortal Emperor). The Tamil Tigers today in Sri Lanka perform suicide bombings against civilians for political reasons. So is it too much of a stretch to believe that someone wouldn't have put one and one together to further their own agenda? Given the violent passages in the Old Testament (SEE: Deuteronomy 18-20), do you think that if most of the Middle East were Christian or Jewish or any other religion but the governments were still as corrupt and the people still as repressed, you wouldn't be hearing about suicide bombers and extremists of other religions?

This is not saying that Islam doesnt have its own Deuteronomy passages. But people rarely believe in the inerrant truth of any Holy Book unless they're an extremist or fundamentalist, and in that case you could infer that they are intolerant. Take Jimmy Carter and our current president - two very different philosophies, both supposedly inspired from the Holy Bible. Or the Vatican, which officially endorsed the Theory of Evolution in the 1980s. Religion is more what you want it to be, rather than how it wants you to be.

We've seen extremism elsewhere in the face of extreme poverty and oppression. Just take the Communist Revolutions in Russia and China. Again, the root of the problem is of failed states in the Middle East, NOT religion.

So to elaborate on what I said earlier, it's important to analyze the reasons behind the radicalization of people under the governments of the Middle East.

1. Effective ways of organizing in a repressive regime: In a predominantly Muslim nation, the best way of organizing resistance to one of the many totalitarian states in the Middle East would obviously be through the mosque. Political dissidents would be hard to target since they would be working through the framework of the religious community that basically consists of the entire country. Any serious attempt to crack down on these radical mosques, as seen in the recent hostage situation in Pakistan, would be met by extreme resistance since it could be perceived as also an assault on the 99% of the population who are mosque-goers.

2. Recruitment through "Philanthropy": That's right. Radical fundamentalist parties like Hamas and Hezbollah "take care" of their members in exchange for their endorsement of radical Islam. These members are often people of the lower classes who are in abject poverty, desperate for aid, and ignored (or even repressed) by their governments. In response, take Hezbollah in Lebanon - which provides free medical care, education, and (re)construction materials (via the Jihad Construction Company) to poor Shias otherwise unable to afford such care. However, this is not out of altruism but rather a means to an end; the schools, while at the same time providing education, also indoctrinate the next generation towards radical ideology.

3. Recruitment through "Philanthropy" Part II: Hamas in the Palestinian Territories is not nearly as wealthy as Hezbollah and cannot render as effective social services. However, they have been known to recruit the sons of desperately poor families to perform suicide bombings against Israel. In return, Hamas will pay the families of the martyred individual a considerable sum of money; in essence, many of the PLO suicide bombers are inspired more from familial concern than radicalism.

4. The reward of eternal life... with additional benefits: Talking with many Christian Evangelicals, eternal life (going to heaven) is the ultimate reward - everything else is inconsequential. I imagine it would be the same in Islam. Also, in a Sharia Law society where any semblance of sexuality is repressed, the reward of 72 virgins is hard to pass up (although this is a fabrication by these radical groups, and not actually in the Koran afaik)

So really, fundementalist religion is the most effective reason for radicalists to make themselves known in such an environment. It is a means to an end, not the root cause.

George Bush? Is weak imho. A halfhearted attack on iraq creating more misery than joy. Should think that the white house would be able to plan better.

I also think people who are not prepared to use any means to remove a dictator like Saddam are dangerous. Why should we not care about people in other countries, just because its another country, goes beyond my understanding. Especially since US is about just that, freedom for all.

Israel is a problem. It is not that they want any war or ignition of the middle-east, they actually just want to live alone in what they believe is their land. Thats the problem, other people think its their land as well. The day people drop the "im a patriot" thinking and start to live in peace, we will be one step closer to paradise.

Iran is dangerous, because they know they are provoking the rest of the world, and they dont care. It is their land... It can only end 2 ways. Either we invade Iran or Iran invade us, we are after all infidels, right?

China is strange. They are communists still, but they are starting to open up and it seems at least from the outside, that they intend to create a place that will work for them. It would be so much easier if we could just hate them...

Myth? hmmm forgive my ignorance but at the moment i am unfamiliar with how many religions other than Islam have 'honour killings'. I am also not up to date with how many other religions have recently blown up ancient monuments of other religions or ban women from school? How many other religions have been going around using the word Jihad and happen to be the faith of terrorists in planes crashing into buildings?

Yea, tell me again how Islam is not a violant backward religion?? compared to what? Sorry, you will need a time machine to find a mainstream religion as bad as Islam today.

You're still making generalizations and obviously haven't read what I wrote in the last few posts (see #s 1,2,3, and 4 on my last post on the root causes): the symptom arises from a extreme minority of radicals holding a large amount of power due political and social repression to the nth degree. There's obviously a large discrepancy between those people and the secular pro-choice Muslims in Turkey, as there is between, say Jimmy Carter and Pope Innocent III.

I'll admit that on average, Muslims tend to hold more radical or fundementalist views (again, religion is HOW you interpret it, something I already mentioned), but that is again due to socio-political issues in their home countries rather than actually religion. Hamas and Hezbollah are political organizations primary and use religion as a means to an end to further their own political goals.

So how exactly is anything in the Koran worse than in Deuteronomy? If not, I dont see how your argument holds any water.

Hugo Chavez is a great leader, a man of the people and for the people. He uses the same strong armed tactics that the Capitalist pigs which run our country use, but since 'he' does it this makes him a 'bad' man. What's wrong with forcibly taking back some of the wealth that was generated by the people and giving it back to them? In my eyes, nothing at all. Anyone who legitimately wants to help the poor people has my vote, regardless of how they go about it, via pen or sword.

you're very well-spoken (well-written as it were).

it hasn't been overlooked; some of us have been trying to get this point across for about a month now. a few of us have been haunting a network of posts by MarcusCardiff with a political bent, so some of the defenses of Islam aren't in this thread.