Lula posts:

So Daiho posts:

What are you basing this assertion upon?

Christ said He was God and so did His Apostles. Saul of Tarsus, renamed Paul was tortured, suffered, imprisoned and exposed to death, all for saying that Christ is God. As a matter of fact, there have been many martyrs who endured horrible deaths in His Name. They didn't give their lives for religious freedom...but martyred for the First Commandment. They insisted upon Christianity's exceptional nature...One God in Three Persons before whom there were no others.

My thoughts exactly. I've always seen the traditional Christian God as some sort of schizophrenic, narcissistic ventriloquist.

LITTLE WHIP POSTS:

LW,

There's reasons for things. Here's a very plausible explanation of Noah's drunkeness. Listen up, Zoo, you might find this interesting as well.

It is a well known fact that wine was imbibed in those days. To my knowledge there is no mention of Noah ever getting drunk before the Flood. This happened after the Flood.

In my study of Creation and the Flood, I've read Gerard J. Keane, Creation Rediscovered. The following comes from his book.

Various creationists suggest that when God created the earth, He lifted up sufficient water, Gen.1:7, to expose the desired extent of dry land and then suspended it high in the atmosphere. They suggest that God instantly turned this water into vapor (super heated transparent steam) and established it in a pressure-temperature distribution.

It's argued that a greenhouse effect would have ensued, with pleasant temperatures in all parts of the globe allowing a state of tranquility on Earth. This in turn would have allowed lush vegatation to grow in all areas. The atmospheric pressure would have been about 2.18 times that of today's atmosphere, thus facilitating giant forms of life to exist. It also would have aided longetivity.

So, before the Flood the Earth would have very likely would have had an entirely different environment from today. (If the idea of the vapor canopy and greenhouse effect seems fantastic, one can point to an atmospheric canopy in existence today on Venus. The temperatures at the poles and equator are similiar. If this canopy theory is valid, the higher atmospheric pressure provides a clue to why Noah got drunk after he had re-established his family on the Earth after the waters of the Flood had subsided.

Perhaps he was caught off guard. With the canopy gone, the rate of formation of the alcohol in the wine would have speeded up, and Noah would not have anticipated there being more alcohol in the wine, the same amount of wine he normally drank before the Flood occurred and from which he didn't get drunk.

Nope not cutting and pasting. Typed it up with my own hand. Opened up the big book and typed it all out. Wrong again LW. Yes, it's bad fruit but our definitions are different.

Here it is again this time with an explanation so you'll understand completely what these all mean. Look them up yourself if you'd like. I'll give you the reference.

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God [Gal. 5:19–21].

This is an ugly brood of sensual sins, religious sins, social sins, and personal sins.

Sensual Sins-Fornication—prostitution
Uncleanness—(akatharsia) impurity, sexual sins including pornography
Lasciviousness—brutality, sadism (we see this abounding in our day)

Religious Sins-Idolatry—worship of idols (this includes money and everything that takes the place of God)
Witchcraft—(pharmakeia) drugs (drugs are used in all heathen religions)
Hatred—enmityVariances—eris (the Greek Eris was the goddess of strife) contentions, quarrels

Social SinsEmulations—(zelos) rivalry, jealousy
Wrath—(thumos) a hot temper
Strife—factions, cliques (little cliques in a church hurt the cause of Christ)
Seditions—divisions
Heresies—parties, sects
Envyings—(phthonos)

Personal SinsDrunkenness Revelings, wantonness

This basically is speaking to our nature LW. We are not perfect ALL the time. We can, even as goody goody Christians deliver some bad fruit. We are human. But when it comes to habitually, consisitently delivering bad fruit it says something about us. Don't you think so?

When you go to the scripture and read this it's very clear "it's what you do" meaning it's a continuous action. An illustration was given by Jesus of the Prodigal. He was in the pigpen for a while but he didn't stay there. Ya, he messed up. But when he realized how bad he was by examining his life, he repented, went back to the Father and was accepted back.

I pray that for you LW.



Ha! Well com'on be honest. Look at what he went thru. Barely escaped, probably a bit singed from the fallout, lost his wife after she became a salt lick. I mean com'on. He probably got drunk to escape the reality of it all. Not making excuses for him, but can understand.

As for Noah? No excuse. How could he. There is no satisfactory excuse for him. I don't agree with Lula on this one. There is no use trying to make excuses for Noah. The bare fact is that Noah got drunk.

I think the better question here is why in the world was this even written down? It sure doesn't make Noah look like a hero. It seems as tho the writer of Genesis should have covered this up doncha think? I mean it doesn't look good to the LW's of the world does it? Well I think God had a purpose in including stuff like this, along with David's Sins, Paul's sins, Peter's sins, ect. Paul wrote:

“For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope." Rom 15:4

The purpose was to show our weakness in the flesh. Even the good guys get in trouble from time to time. None of us are exempt. Even Noah who just went thru the greatest experience of all the bible even screwed up. Tells us the rest of us can't escape.

In Lula's defence SomewhereinND this is actually what some believe to be true trying to give some grace to Noah. She didn't make this up. I just think he was wrong period, because he was human. And humans make mistakes no matter how good they are.



actually that's a good point LW. It just shows what I believe to be true. That it was God who authored the bible, not men or women like me because we would have left out the bad stuff to make our own "look good." Just like you accuse me of doing.



well there's more to the story than that LW. It's deeper than that. The Hebrew word literally means he gazed with satisfaction. His two brothers showed respect for their father by covering him. Notice the curse wasn't on "Ham" but on his son.



Ha! You keep saying this. I don't hide anything. If I did, you certainly wouldn't know about my middle son now would you? Have you ever thought of that? And you love to harp on this.....so why in the world would I want to tell you anything negative about my life? You grab onto any little thing I say and run with it.

I do believe in abstince education...absolutely. I don't care if I had 10 kids who were NOT practicing it. It wouldn't make me NOT believe it's the right thing to teach our young kids. Truth is truth. I don't change truth based on experience and emotion. And IT actually DID work with my kids. Two are still to this day preaching it themselves still unmarried, and you know that I've mentioned this before.

Agan, you misrepesent me for your own purposes.

But someone sure did, and it was a hell of a doozie . . .