Well, hard is not impossible, therefor I saw it as a possibility, therefor .... see my last reply.

Yes I'm sure SoaSE was a very easy game to develop and they skipped all the potential hard parts to make a better UI while the game's design sticked to the safe and expected, because apparently the UI's designers would take all the work load of experimenting with a certain different gameplay feature therefor they wouldn't have so much time to spend on the UI

...Seriously now, it's all about what kind of game they wanted to make when they started this, not how hard they thought it was to make... If it was their original concept then I'm sure come beta day you would see it working wonderfully, regardless of how hard it was to get it done. I'm sure developers like Ironclad and Stardock have a bit more in their hearts and minds when they create games and do it out of love and do it because they want it, not just because they see if they can please people they will get money (though that's needed too of course).

And no, the above does not mean I think that was their concept and we will see it like this in the beta... Just to avoid confusion

Edit: I just noticed that the FAQ page mentions "Galaxy Exploration" as one of the elements borrowed from 4X games. Of course, in what way they mean that, I have no idea as, once again, we don't know that much about the gameplay just yet.

They could (maybe) take the Ascendancy model where you can see all the stars from the beginning but can't see the planets orbiting around them until you have visited that system. Once you have sent a ship to that system then you can see all of that system's planets. In that game each system was going to have between 1 and 5 planets and there were a variety of planet sizes and types. From what I have seen, Sins will have a lot more planets than that but the same basic exploration model would work nicely. You start on one planet in one system, can see all the neighboring planets, then you send out a scout to the nearest other star and then you can see it's planets too.

That would rock!

Calling that concept fog of war is just another way to put it down just because you don't like it... You certainly did not expect it to be this way, so it's at least unexpected, unlike your wishes, since you always assumed that's how it would be. Note I never said it's better, you are the one who keeps trying to point out what you personall prefer is better for this or that reason.

It's just a different gameplay mechanic that enables different possibilities. Note it was also a simple example. Other games have line of sight where you can only see what's visible by your units, and in some (Say, Warhammer: Dark Omen) it works great. Were you in their forums calling it Fog of War too?

Anyway, that new idea presented by Wedge is another example as an answer to your initial request for suggestions about how it could be done. You even like this one, which shows that @ first you dismissed a whole concept that can be realised in many, many many different ways for no reason and asked the forum members to become game designers, and on top of that game designers with ideas you personally enjoy, if they want to show that it's viable.

All I know is that there is no FOG is space

Thank you for clearing that one up...I forgot to check the forecast, No fog means I wont be slamming into an asteroid tonight.

Are you serious? Darn, I just wasted a whole bunch of money outfitting my frigates with fog lights then...

get a refund and maybe put a mr fusion in there , that way you don't have to worry about anti-matter to power your ships

"I'm advocating something like from rise of nations: you can ALWAYS see the terrain, but you dont know whats there."

That's pretty much what "line of sight" did in games it was used, and yet you call that fog of war, again without thinking and just because you thought you didn't like it.

"it probably wont work well here now let me clarify that I'm talking on the map scale, not the planet scale."

I was making a point, not a suggestion/idea for Sins. Taking everything out of context are we?

"like what"

Space exploration aspects to the game. Some people liked the sound of it. You don't, that's fine with me.


"I'm dismissing the whole "find each and every everything" concept, that idea sucks."

No, you were dismissing the whole concept of not knowing the number of planets of all the star systems in the whole playing area right off the bat (hell I was simply saying I don't know which way they did it, knowing their number or not, and you started this discussion). Therefor you asked for examples of how it could work without knowing all that by default. You hated my example (some liked the sound of it, so saying "it sucks" is a stupid attempt to prove it's bad), but then you read another example, by Wedge, and found it a viable option therefor you were simply proven wrong in your initial and furious dislike of the whole concept.

Anything else you try to say to turn the focus of the discussion back to one of the simple EXAMPLES presented and which you apparently hate, instead of the actual point of the discussion, is irrelevant and I'll leave you to it if you keep trying...

Either way, picking the number of planets per galaxy is void if you can pick the number of total planets whether you can see them @ the start of the game or not. What would you do? Pick total planets 200 but planets per galaxy 150? Just let the game randomise the latter for a varied universe while you only chose the total number... Simple.

"then your in the wrong place"
I'm not in the wrong place, you simply were what turned the discussion into something off topic, then when I followed, you tried to make it as if I was suggesting things I want to see in Sins or think are already in Sins when I was simply responding to your very own requests for explanations or examples and nothing more.

"dont read emotion in where it doesnt exist. that breeds flame arguements"
Putting your personal likes and dislikes as something factual that simply cannot be questioned in any way shows emotion among other things like arrogance. You did resort to using terms like "it sucks" in the end, another thing which doesn't show objective and rational criticism.

"I dont see why it shouldnt be put in? of course you have the option not to use it."
Because it's simply an un needed option and I'm stating my opinion by saying it. They can put it in, I don't care, I just think it's not needed. If you have 3 galaxies and chose 5 planets per galaxy, then that means the total number MUST be 15, even if you had chosen the total number to be 20. Get it yet? One or the other works, both together are not fully functional.

"because of course you must know what I was dismissing."
Yes, I can follow a discussion, something you seem to not be able and do very well. You showed a dislike to the concept BEFORE specific examples were given by anyone, hell it was the very reason you asked for specific examples as "proof" that it is viable to not know all the planets, even though I didn't even advocate such a concept @ that point and was only presenting the fact I did not know which way Ironclad have chosen.

To remind you, it went something like this:
-Ninja: I want to see these options.
-Me: Do you know all planets by default? If not, then Ninja's option #3 should not be included.
-Ninja: No way. Go ahead and become a game designer and tell me exactly how it can be done to prove that it might be possible to not know all the planets.
-Me: Uh, okay... It could be done in this way maybe.
-Lordkosc: That would be awesome!
-Ninja: I dislike this way therefor you have not yet proven it's possible, as your mere examples should meet my preferences to be considered valid.
-Wedge: Here's a different example, it could be like in that other game, sort of.
-Ninja: That could work.
-Me: Finally, you understand that it could work in some way, and perhaps see why I made my first 100% hypothetical statement with a big fat IF at the start.

End of story as far as I'm concerned.

Id like to see,

galaxy scale setting : 50%-200% , distance between systems being scaled up or down
system scale setting : 50%-200% , distance between planets and sun being scaled up or down.

Lets say you fancy a 1 solar system game with 20 planets. You might want to put the system scale setting to 200% , so things arent too near each other and you have a decent enough sized map sinc you have no inter-solar system travel only inter-planetary. Some might want it down to 50% for a tiny game, up to whoever.