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Gamespot's write up bothered me...

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Schod
Join Date 10/2006
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Reply #26 November 12, 2006 11:07:27 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
5. And of course there was no 3D movement of any kind... well... sometimes units would go 'over' or 'under' each other if they got bunched up... but that doesn't really count.


well, what sucks is that whoever is "underneath" gets to practically auto win

that, or the person with the huge armada.
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Yarlen
Join Date 01/2005
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Reply #27 November 13, 2006 9:29:40 AM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

How 3D is the movement? Last I checked Sins plantary systems will have floors and ceilings. That is the battle space will be a cylinder instead of a sphere.


This could just all be my misunderstanding. I also think ships auto level to some predetermined plane. Both of those aspects are somewhat limiting in what you can do because the ship's weapons are directional. And if the ship auto levels to a specific plane then you might have a hard time angling your weapons properly.

I know some people would be confused by extra controls, but other gamers like myself would really appreciate as much freedom of movement as possible.

Not sure, as I don't like playing with the 3D myself (the game doesn't force you to). It seems to be a sphere around the planet (with the sphere being the invisible gravity well). Ships weapons are all on turrets right now, so your ship facing doesn't really matter, though this may change moving forward (many elements aren't in place yet). The AI should handle that stuff itself regardless (i.e., weapon angles).

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Inert
Join Date 10/2006
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Reply #28 November 13, 2006 9:13:47 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Homeworld had all ships level out so that there was a really defined "up" and "down". The camera also couldn't swivel up and over an object; all attempts stop abruptly when you're nearly "over" the object. So if you wanted to rotate over you'd have to rotate the camer up, turn 180 degrees, and rotate down again. A fully 3d camera will allow you to do the up and over trick in a clean swipe.

Um. . . I hope you understand.
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Yarlen
Join Date 01/2005
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Reply #29 November 14, 2006 9:15:35 AM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
The camera can rotate all around a ship in 360 degrees (I just did it to verify), so it sounds like you'll be able to accomplish what you describe.
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LizardWatcher
Join Date 11/2006
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Reply #30 November 15, 2006 12:09:15 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
The camera can rotate all around a ship in 360 degrees (I just did it to verify), so it sounds like you'll be able to accomplish what you describe.


Wow thx u

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Schod
Join Date 10/2006
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Reply #31 November 15, 2006 4:19:33 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
is it going to be a plain-based system?
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Inert
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Reply #32 November 15, 2006 6:44:19 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Thanks Yarlen.

And the ships don't level out or anything either?
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Blair Fraser
Join Date 10/2006
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Reply #33 November 15, 2006 8:31:13 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

You can move ships in 3d if you like and they will travel pointing up or whatever is appropriate so you it is possible to have ships face in any direction.

There are different combinations of camera modes and one of them allows you to rotate it 360 degrees around any object. Weapons and some special actions are directional.

Typically, weapons exist in one of 4 banks that fire out in a 3d cone. For example, if the weapon is in the forward bank it can't hit things to the side, or behind it. The AI knows which bank is currently optimal and will orient as neccessary to bring the most damage to bear. A rough guideline is some ships are primary forward firing (massive beam weapons), broadsiders, or omni-directional (anti-fighter frigate with equal weapons all over). Another consideration is how to position your ships to maximize the damage from all banks.  A battleship that is only firing forwards at a single target is losing 2/3 of its potential so you would want to move it so it could fire left, forward and right, at 3 seperate targets.

Finally, as Yarlen said, this may change in the future based on feedback from you guys

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KaskaraSF
Join Date 10/2006
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Reply #34 November 15, 2006 10:14:17 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
That sounds pretty darn cool so far. I especially like the bit where the AI actually tries to make your life easier.

How much control does the player have over ship firing behaviour? For example... take that battleship. How does the AI (or the player for that matter!) decide what the secondary weapons banks are shooting at?
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Schod
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Reply #35 November 16, 2006 8:30:17 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
A rough guideline is some ships are primary forward firing (massive beam weapons), broadsiders, or omni-directional


you know what would be sweet? some rear-cannon type ships that are meant to cover defense...

just thinking about the possibilities   
A battleship that is only firing forwards at a single target is losing 2/3 of its potential so you would want to move it so it could fire left, forward and right, at 3 seperate targets.


I'm happy that you guys aren't forgetting the tactical part of this game, very very chic
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Blair Fraser
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Reply #36 November 16, 2006 3:45:18 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

you know what would be sweet? some rear-cannon type ships that are meant to cover defense...

Some ships have rear bank weapons.

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Schod
Join Date 10/2006
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Reply #37 November 16, 2006 3:50:21 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Some ships have rear bank weapons.


yes, but I mean that they are mainly rear-bank weaponry, as opposed to frontally based or broadside based.
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Inert
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Reply #38 November 16, 2006 6:36:20 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Then where's the engine gonna be schem?
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Schod
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Reply #39 November 16, 2006 10:20:37 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
side based, like in airplanes. either that or placed next to or around the beam cannons
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Space Voyager
Join Date 12/2005
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Reply #40 November 17, 2006 8:07:08 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
This all seems phenomenal! Especially the part where the ship (AI) will try to orient itself so that the most damage potential is used... I guess this must be pretty hard to achieve (programming-wise) in full 3D!
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Schod
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Reply #41 November 17, 2006 9:42:11 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Especially the part where the ship (AI) will try to orient itself so that the most damage potential is used

thing is that this is a very offensive based playing style, if I want to play defensive (say, to wait for reinforcements) I want to be able to turn this off rather easily

thanks for understanding this. (as I'm quite sure you do)
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WedgeHG
Join Date 10/2006
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Reply #42 November 18, 2006 4:36:53 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Schem, I think that "orient itself" just means that it will rotate in order to shoot most effectively - not that it would go chasing after targets. Offensive or defensive you are going to want to be using your ships max firepower I would think.
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Schod
Join Date 10/2006
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Reply #43 November 18, 2006 9:18:02 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Schem, I think that "orient itself" just means that it will rotate in order to shoot most effectively - not that it would go chasing after targets.


I do believe that it meant the ship would put itself in the midst of enemy targets in order to hit from all sides, but doing so would mean getting hit from all sides

then again I could have misunderstood.
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WedgeHG
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Reply #44 November 18, 2006 12:18:29 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Oh ok. If your definition is the correct one then I'd definitely agree with you that we need a way to keep them reigned in if we want.
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Ashbery76
Join Date 02/2002
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Reply #45 November 19, 2006 10:16:32 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Are the tactical battles going to have the pacing and depth of a game like Nexus: The Jupiter Incident an RTT game,like Totalwar in space?
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Space Voyager
Join Date 12/2005
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Reply #46 November 20, 2006 4:46:21 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
thing is that this is a very offensive based playing style, if I want to play defensive (say, to wait for reinforcements) I want to be able to turn this off rather easily


Yes, some sort of "hold position" option would be nice. I don't think this highest damage dealt includes moving the ship (it could be really hard for the AI to compute the highest damage dealt in a large area with a large number of ships) but rather rotations only, but if it does include moving as well, than hold position would be great.
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Yarlen
Join Date 01/2005
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Reply #47 November 20, 2006 10:31:05 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
We're planning to have AI stances, so you could have your ships set to pursue targets or hold position, etc.
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CilverBUG™
Join Date 10/2006
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Reply #48 November 20, 2006 12:24:03 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums


We're planning to have AI stances, so you could have your ships set to pursue targets or hold position, etc.


thats the word i was looking for, maybe you can set it in a defensive stance and instead of your ships pursuing the agressor it will fire when they reach the firing range and still keep its current position.

also i had in mind a 0.05m light firing advantage for that particular stance, just a tad bit further than on agressive tactic. in this case you can have a little time to either retreat or engage.
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Schod
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Reply #49 November 20, 2006 3:18:01 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
it could be really hard for the AI to compute the highest damage dealt in a large area with a large number of ships

not really, its simple as programming some conical regions into the ship and seeing if you can fit a ship into each one (sounds like up to 3, one for each side, at this point)
We're planning to have AI stances, so you could have your ships set to pursue targets or hold position, etc.


sweet
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Space Voyager
Join Date 12/2005
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Reply #50 November 21, 2006 3:00:49 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
not really, its simple as programming some conical regions into the ship and seeing if you can fit a ship into each one (sounds like up to 3, one for each side, at this point)


AFAIK each weapon will have it's own cone of fire. So to compute which position in a large group of ships (cosidering the ship would be able to move freely among the ships instead of just hold position) will yield best firing position seems like a lot of calculating to me... But I'm no expert in programming, so I won't pretend to know how demanding - either for the programmer or the CPU - it is.
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