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I snoop

dharmagrl

Join Date 02/2004

I snoop

I have an almost-14-year old daughter who has discovered the joys of blogging and the internet.

As a parent, I feel it's my responsibility to somehow manage to prepare my children for the uneven playing field that is life but at the same time not blow their innocence away too soon. It's hard, especially when you have a child who thinks they're worldy and society-savvy and wants to stake their claim for a little independence. I want my daughter to know that I trust her, but to also know that I'm her parent and will step in if I think she's out of her depth.

The trick, of course, is not to LET her get out of her depth. I don't want to come in and fix things; I don't want there to be anything to fix. There are precautions that we take:

She has to ask for permission to use the computer. It's password protected, and she doesn't have the password. She has to ask her father or I to unlock it.

The desktop computer is in the living room, and none of the kids are allowed to be on the computer when there's no adult in the room. There's always an adult in the room whenever she or her brothers are online.

We don't have any messenger programs on the desktop, and we don't allow participation in chat rooms under any circumstances.

We have the user ID's and passwords to ALL email and ID-protected sites.

Those are all good precautions, right? I think so. But I also think that they're not enough. There are a million things that she could be looking at or writing about without my knowledge. Things that, despite my wanting to give her a sense of privacy and respect, I need to know about.

So I snoop.

She knows that I snoop occasionally. She knows that I am able to see exactly what she looked at and how long she looked at it for. She knows that I am able to uncover what she wrote and see who responded. She knows that I'm looking and monitoring, and whilst I think she might be slightly frustrated at my snooping she knows that I'm doing it for her protection.

She knows, because I've told her. When I found an article that she wrote on her blog about how she was upset at her grandfather's death and how she felt unhappy enough to wonder how she could get rid of the emotional pain she was experiencing, I sat down with her in her room and talked to her about it. She asked me to leave and then cried herself to sleep, but the next day she was able to tell me why she had written in and discuss how we could deal with her pain.

When we found that she'd been visiting some pretty dark vampire/goth sites we again asked her what she was doing there and why. She'd only been there briefly, but the content of those sites was disturbing enough to us that we felt the need to ask her about them.

She still visits some places that are not exactly my cup of tea. She has her style and is developing a pretty strong sense of self. She also has a well-defined sense of right and wrong, so I'm not terribly worried about what she does online.

I don't want to have a net-nanny. I don't want to micro-manage the content of my kid's lives. I don't want them to feel like I'm always in their business....but I want them to know that I'm still their parent and I WILL do whatever it takes to protect them from things I don't believe they're ready to see.

I snoop, and I'm not ashamed of it.

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Snoop strong. I know I will do the same.

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I too think it's good that you do. I do it sometimes. I have to make sure my kids are handling things the way I've taught them, and that there isn't anything that I have to worry about.

I don't listen in on conversations between my oldest and her friend. I usually hear anything new or unusual from my daughter. She likes coming to me and asking questions and telling me things. I'm glad she keeps that door open.

I heard a case once a long time ago where a mom got in trouble for snooping. I thought at the time that it was just a crock of shit that they were charging her for doing that.

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Aparently I'm voting with the majority on this one. It's not snooping, it's parenting. You and Shea have such a good relationship, you are respectful of each other and, while she may not like some of the house rules, so far she seems as willing to go along with them as any teenager is. After my oldest left for college, me and him talked, I told him that he "got in all the right kind of trouble" when he was growing up. Of course kids are going to break rules at times.. as good as my kids have been, I'd be worried about them if they didn't push here and there. I'd be afraid that they were merely parroting their parents' opinions and personalities without bothering to let their own come out around us. I'd hate to think of my kids like that... afraid to let us know when they disagree with us. Even on the rules of the home. Actually, I'm glad there are parents out there who let their kids get away with everything, it's sad for the kids, but they make great examples of why house rules, standards and respect are important. "Why don't you trust me!" Is usually yelled by kids as a weapon. The kids whose parents can trust them, rarely have to resort to even saying it, much less wielding it. I like the Army "Trust But Verify". When I was an NCO, when I checked the asmuth and elevation numbers on the gun during a fire mission, it wasn't because I didn't trust my gunner and assistant gunner when they read off the numbers and yelled, "SET"... it was me merely doing my job... as the one who's ultimately responsible for those numbers being correct and the projectile hitting the target. As parents, we are ultimately responsible for our kids. It is the piss poor parent who mistakes "trust" with laziness. You, my friend, are not a piss poor parent.

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starkers

Join Date 05/2004

+1153

heard a case once a long time ago where a mom got in trouble for snooping. I thought at the time that it was just a crock of shit that they were charging her for doing that.

That's minor compared to what happened to me.....I was charged with kidnapping and unlawful deprivation of liberty for locking in my 15 yo stepdaughter to stop her taking off to have sex in the back seat of a 28 yo man's car. Now how ridiculous is that, the authorities tell us we must be responsible for our children, and when we do our best to protect them, we're threatened with punitive measures.

Fortunately the charges were dropped after several hours of being detained by police, but the cops and Dep't of Family Destruction have warned both my wife and myself not to intervene in our daughter's life/decisions now she has reached 16, lest they reinstate the original charges and others under the Child & Families Act.

This girl is not of age to purchase alcohol or cigarettes, she can neither vote or serve her country, yet these imbeciles consider her of age to make harmful life decisions that can and will have the impact of destroying her life. She has been pregnant and miscarried twice this year, yet the Dep't of Family Destuction still allows her to 'self select' without supervision, checks or balances.

You, my friend, are not a piss poor parent.

Neither am I or my wife....but the Gov't of Tasmania and its Dep't of Family Destruction has rendered us piss poor, powerless and ineffectual by excluding us from decision making regarding a child we've raised yet they barely know and have relatively little interest in.

This saga began in Nov 05 and has deteriorated well beyond sanity, so if anyone can put rhyme, reason or logic to it, please enlighten me because I can only see sheer madness on the part of the authorities.

As one Opposition Parliamentarian put it, some kids will fall through the cracks, but with this gov't recently amending the Child Protection Act. they've created bloody great holes and provided kids with clear instructions on how to jump in boots n' all. Given our experiences with them, truer words were never spoken.

Granted, the internet is fraught with perils and unsavoury content, etc, but when you have a gov't such as ours, dismantling the very fabric of families and society, the greater danger lies within piss poor attitudes of the very people we elected to protect us....our greatest assets, being our children.

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hope I don't sound like a hard ass cause I'm not.

Nah, not at all. You sound like an awesome parent with some great advice. Thank you.

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starkers

Join Date 05/2004

+1153

Oh, and another thing....regarding password protection and net nanny programs.

There are many cracker/password recovery progams freely available for download on a variety of sites that'll easily circumvent these preventitive measures that responsible parents utilise to protect their kids from unsavoury content/activities on the net.

I recently heard a 15 yo kid bragging that he can access his parents computer to view porn sites and etc by simply turning on their machine and placing a floppy disc containing bypass programs/codes in the drive to gain full access to everything.
Naturally I informed his parents (now I've another enemy), and he is now totally barred from even touching their PC....the floppy drive being removed to circumvent his circumventing. Trouble is, his persistence and determination will result in his finding another machine to view more of the same.

I once had an instance where my stepdaughter demanded privacy while she was on the net, and being that she was just chatting with a friend on MSN, I saw no real harm in it so left her be for a few moments. However, when I later went into my 'Received Files' to pull a reference from a chat with my mother, I accidentally pulled up her chat and was absolutely dumbfounded, dismayed and shocked at the content discussed, shared between them. Bluntly put, some of the more seasoned porn stars would have found it atrocious, thus the computer was totally off limits.

Now this kid was never brought up this way, nor did we ever expose her to the kinds of unsavoury behaviour she began exhibiting. In fact, we always tried to advise wisely and guide her towards better decisions and directions, so it beat me/us why she turned out this way....I'd have a better chance of understanding the meaning of life and what caused the 'Big Bang'

The point here, I guess, is that snooping, constant surveilance and vigilance of child net use is imperative....because kids being kids, they will inevitably push the boundaries and break the rules if they think they can get away with it. I don't care whose kid it is, how well they're taught/brought up....I've heard completely naive parents saying: "Oh, my lil Jimmy wouldn't do a thing like that!", but the fact is lil Jimmy secretly does a hell of a lot more, and mum & dad are none the wiser.

There was a time as a teenager when I complained to my mother about not having the same rights as some of my friends....and her reply was that the ONLY rights I had were food, clothing and a roof over my head, an education, love, care and protection from all that could harm me....other than those I had no rights, just priveleges that she could either grant or deny at her discretion. In my opinion, that's how it should be, give children all they NEED and, in this age of widespread corruption, highly unsavoury elements and distastful behaviour, be highly selective about what they want but do not need.

Trouble is, kids these days expect and demand far too much....because do-gooders and governments have indoctinated them with the idea that they're no longer priveledges but undeniable and inalienable rights to much more than they'll ever NEED or should be entitled to.

Is it the fault of these kids....NOPE! It is we, the adult generation who placed these harmful things at their disposal.....sadly there are some who refuse to accept responsibility for it, some who continue to perpetuate it, and others who stand in our way when we try to re-establish some semblance of order and sanity in our childrens lives.

Sadly, people, these are the facts of life nowadays.

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is that snooping, constant surveilance and vigilance of child net use is imperative....because kids being kids, they will inevitably push the boundaries and break the rules if they think they can get away with it. I don't care whose kid it is, how well they're taught/brought up....I've heard completely naive parents saying: "Oh, my lil Jimmy wouldn't do a thing like that!", but the fact is lil Jimmy secretly does a hell of a lot more, and mum & dad are none the wiser.

First Starkers I want to say how sorry I am to hear about your trouble..and for the pain I am sure it is causing you and your wife. I hope things get better or get "over" soon. It sounds like a very stressful situation to me.

Second, I watch my son on the net but STILL check history because I am not looking over his shoulder the entire time. Your story has not fallen on deaf ears and re-enforces what I know should be done.

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starkers

Join Date 05/2004

+1153

Thank you for your very kind thoughts, Tova...my wife and I appreciate them.

And yes, it is very stressful, particularly when the very people who removed our parental responsibilities and rights just sit back, do nothing and refuse to help a child who is most certainly at risk. They have the power and ability to reinstate our parental authority, or to implement measures which would establish some semblance of order in her life, yet they seem to regard her situation as acceptable, despite the fact she has been pregnant and miscarried twice this year....is trying to get pregnant again and still living in a de-facto relationship with the 25 yo man who last got her pregnant and police eventually charged with having unlawful sex with her.

Makes no sense, does it....charging him for the crime then placing him back with her to continue committing it....no more sense than giving a convicted embezzeler a bank managers job. We have complained bitterly and constantly, but all we get in response is: "What do you want us to do about it, we cannot move her as we have nowhere else to place her." What a crock of shit! If it were one of their own, they'd find a placement just like that, but because our girl is a nobody to them, it's too much trouble and she remains at risk.

Sad thing is, my wife has already been hospitalised over this stressful situation, not that the authorities give a stuff, and now she has severed all ties with them. Her view is that they're full of bullshit and piss weak excuses, so now if the Dep't of Family Destruction phone here, she immediately slams the phone down in their ears....and if they come to the door, she slams it in their faces. Now isn't it amazing, we can't get police to protect a child at risk, yet we can get them here to remove gov't workers when they refuse to leave.

I fully sympathise and understand how my wife feels, but personally I'd like to keep the lines of communication open, just in case there's a breakthrough and the lass has a change of heart, but my wife is adamant and says that 'she' knows where our front door is: "Not that I'll ever open it to her again, not after all the lies, deceit and piss poor behaviour that near killed me!" In other words, she also wants to sever ties with her own daughter....

Okay, the kid has done wrong, but what sort of government would have allowed this terrible situation to decay into such disrepair, that it would drive a parent to such despair and desperation she would rather disown her daughter than ever trust in her again, because the system failed them both miserably.

I now find myself in one of the worst quandries I've ever faced! Do I respect my wife's wishes and sever ties with Family Destuction to save upsetting her further, or do I lie about it and maintain the lines of communication just in case? Do I also sever ties with my stepdaugher because those lines of communication could be distressing for my wife and have her hospitalised all over again, or do I lie and secretly support the girl behind my wife's back? Obviously I want to help and support my wife in every way I can, but at the same time I do not want to turn my back on a girl who will eventually need us. I don't like having to lie or sneak around, but it may be what I'll have to do...and pray like hell that eventually I can happily reunite mother and daughter.

Oh, and for those worried about going to Heaven or Hell, strive like all buggery to get into Heaven cos Tasmania ain't a real nice place to be, not with the way its being run right now.

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now find myself in one of the worst quandries I've ever faced! Do I respect my wife's wishes and sever ties with Family Destuction to save upsetting her further, or do I lie about it and maintain the lines of communication just in case? Do I also sever ties with my stepdaugher because those lines of communication could be distressing for my wife and have her hospitalised all over again, or do I lie and secretly support the girl behind my wife's back? Obviously I want to help and support my wife in every way I can, but at the same time I do not want to turn my back on a girl who will eventually need us. I don't like having to lie or sneak around, but it may be what I'll have to do...and pray like hell that eventually I can happily reunite mother and

I was a teen taken out of the home by the gov. Thank God because my step monster was horrid. WWW Link

But my dad chose to drop all contact with me. He said the state made it too hard for him. (Requiring he take parenting classes, etc) And maybe it was too hard trying to appease the monster, work full time, and do that too. But you know what I heard by his inaction? "Whew, glad she's gone. One down, one to go and we are free of kids. Woot!"

In other words, I felt unwanted.

I am so GLAD to see you write these things. She's not your blood yet you are unwilling to give up on her. She may see that as interfering in her life...but once she wakes up and realizes what she's done..... she will see interference as being WANTED. (OF course this could be years from now, or never, that's the nature of the beast...some people never learn.) She may see that no matter what happened you never stopped loving her and wanting the best for her.

I can understand your wife's reaction though. A person can only take so much stress and pain before shutting down.

I'm certainly not telling you what to do. But I think your idea of keeping an open line is a good one.

Sorry for the hi jack Dharma.

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starkers

Join Date 05/2004

+1153

I was a teen taken out of the home by the gov. Thank God because my step monster was horrid.

It's sad to hear that your childhood was less than ideal, but given what you say about your father and step-monster, you were probably better off for being raised by others anyway. It seems, however, you've become a stronger and better person, despite your earlier betrayals and adversities.....more power to you.

I am so GLAD to see you write these things. She's not your blood yet you are unwilling to give up on her.

To me, blood/paternity is irrelevant. My step-daughter is important and special to me regardless, so I will be there for her when needed. The fact is, I formed a caring and emotional attachment when she was just 2 years old, particularly when I saw how badly her biological father abused both she and her mother. I'm not normally a violent person, but I was only too willing and happy to give him the biggest hiding of his life when I saw him pick his own daughter up by her hair and throw her across the room. I dunno, one thing led to another - I was again single, her mother was soon to be, so we ended up getting married - and I've been caring for them ever since.

I think it goes back to my own upbringing. No matter how mischievous or bad I got, my parents never ever gave up on me. I might have got the odd whooping here and there but they never abandoned or betrayed me, and it's them I have to thank for who I have become today...who I was when my first wife walked out just days after giving birth to our second child. It was at a time in my life when I could have had plenty of wild oats to sow, partying and living of my own to do, and I could have done that unencumbered if I'd given my chilren up, but I happily elected to be a stay at home dad and raise/care for them myself. Was it easy doing it all alone...nope! Would I do it again if the need ever arose? You betcha, wouldn't hesitate for a second.

I can understand your wife's reaction though. A person can only take so much stress and pain before shutting down.

Yep, everyone has their breaking point....but there was never ever any need for my wife to be pushed well beyond hers. However, instead of Family Destruction accepting some responsibility and showing her some compassion, they've expressed the view that her state of high anxiety is a sign of weakness, and thus it places great doubt in their minds with regards to her suitability as a parent. And then they wonder why it is they get the door slammed in their faces....collectively, the whole dep't hasn't got half a brain between them.

What I find so ludicrous and hypocritical is the Oz Gov't plan to protect children from internet porn by filtering it out at the ISP source, yet it enacted laws saying it is no longer a criminal offence for someone to have sex with a minor if they are no more than 6 years older than the boy/girl/child. In other words, then, a 21 yo can now legally have sex with a 15 yo....an 18 yo with a 12 yo. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to prevent teens viewing internet pornography when there are NO barriers or preventitive measures to stop them actually participating with adults in those acts which supposedly they're not allowed to see.

Another interesting point...a retiring politician once remarked to a media person that the archive in Parliament House in Canberra probably has the largest library of pornography in the country, if not the Southern Hemisphere. It's one thing for the Gov't to establish what is or isn't fit for public viewing, but to store billions of pornographic images after their job's done is another. Begs the question, doesn't it...just how many of our 'so-called' respectable pollies take it home for personal use/titillation?

For want of a better word....we're completely STUFFED.

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starkers

Join Date 05/2004

+1153

You know what really amazes me...disturbs me in fact? The lack of interest and the few responses here, not to my own particular woes, but towards the general trend across the so-called Western World to relax/do away with disciplines, guidelines and restrictions regarding child morality/immorality. What were once considered child PRIVELEGES, even those things once forbidden to them, have more increasingly become undeniable childrens RIGHTS, while parents have theirs increasingly stripped away by politicians and bureaucrats who've had their heads so far up their rectums for so long, they know nothing but recycling more of the same inappropraite, harmful and criminal legislation.

It's all well and good to sit back in complacency when it doesn't affect one of your own, but given this modern trend towards child emancipation and 'self selection' these days, government and peer group encouragement, it could be anyones child next...and there'll be no point complaining to the authorities once the bird has flown the coop, they'll quote from the rule book published for public consumption and tell you there's nothing they can do. However, there is another rule book, the one which says they can act if they so choose, but that's too much effort and paperwork, so that book remains obscured under the counter collecting dust.....

An example of this arose when we tried to have the authorities act upon an illicit relationship between our 15 yo girl and a 28 yo man, they made feeble excuses as to why they COULDN'T. Yet, when we had given up asking them to help and turned to a lawyer for assistance instead, they're suddenly ABLE to intervene in the relationship she now has with a 25 yo....he has been charged and will go to prison. Strange, that, they COULDN'T act against the first man at parental request, yet without any request or prompting they CAN arrest and charge the second. The only explanation we can come up with is that the police and Family Destruction have become laws unto themselves, are self serving and no longer a public service...that they took personal exception to the latter but not the former. I'll bet my cahoneys that if the first man were a priest, teacher or high profile person, they'd have thrown the book at him. Trouble was, there were no brownie points to be scored, no glory in it for them to prosecute a nobody.

Another case of double standards here in Tasmania! A 37 yo nobody and a 12 yo girl are getting gov't assistance to better parent a child they conceived together, yet a 25 yo TEACHER who engaged in a consentual sexual relationship with a 16 yo girl, at her initiation, has been, charged, convicted and jailed for doing the exact same thing.

Are these isolated incidents? Certainly not! We're being told of similar cases in Britain, N.Z. and the U.S, countries we term as being part of the 'Western World' and across every State in Australia. Now why would it be so widespead here in Oz? Our Federal Pollies have proffered up a $4000 baby bonus for ALL pregnancies...meaning kids as young as 12, with dollar signs in their eyes are getting pregnant purely to get their hands on the cash. There's plenty of Oz taxpayers money going down the toilet on childish whims and fancies....few if any convictions for the illegalities perpetrated to secure this cash.

Not saying it never happens there, but we rarely, if ever hear of these things being so widespread in the East, those countries we call undemocratic....so if this result is what democracy gives us, I DON'T F****NG LIKE IT.

Sorry for yet another rant, but I'm completely pissed that gov't has totally excluded me from the life of someone I raised and cared for since she was three.....simply because she wants to behave promiscuously and we won't allow it. I'm totally pissed because the gov'ts inaction and condoning it has hospitalised my wife, and she could yet end up back in there. I'm pissed because this trend is becoming a contagion in countries that deem themselves democratic, responsible and civilised.

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