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terpfan1980
terpfan1980
Join Date 08/2004
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I -bet- this winds up going nowhere

U.S. chasing off-shore gambling sites

July 18, 2006 1:30:35 PM from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Others may have covered this topic a bit and if so I apologize, but hopefully I can bring my own perspective to the issues involved.

If you've been living under a rock or haven't been following the news cycles then perhaps you are not aware that the U.S. is working on a case against several off-shore gambling sites, the biggest (name wise) being BetOnSports -- a .com site run out of (I think) Costa Rica.

The U.S. of course has strict gambling laws, and only a few areas allow betting on sporting events -- most notably Las Vegas, where you can bet on just about anything, and Off Track Betting locations and horse/dog racing tracks where you can bet on thosee events. Otherwise though, betting and gambling in general (except for state lotteries) is illegal and frowned upon mightily by the U.S. government and most state governments in the U.S.A.

That being the case, it's really no surprise that the U.S. government wants to go after the BetOnSports people. After all, they have advertised heavily on Sports Talk radio stations, on XM and Sirius airwaves and other similar outlets. If they weren't trying to lure in U.S. business, then why bother advertising in the U.S. at all?

The big problem is though, just what right does the U.S. have to shutdown a business that is based in a foreign country and is operating legally in that country? Even if the business may accept customers from areas where the activities are illegal, does the U.S.A. have a legimate duty and responsibility to prevent such businesses from operating normally?

At this time, at least according to news here: Officials charge 11 from offshore gambling site, BetOnSports CEO and four other defendants arrested over weekend, the CEO of the company is being "detained" in the U.S.A. and charged with several crimes including:
... they (the 11 people charged) committed conspiracy, racketeering and fraud in taking sports bets from U.S. residents.
Personally, I find the U.S. stance highly hypocritical for many reasons. One, consider the state lotteries I mentioned above. Consider the casino gambling in many areas. Consider the legal betting in Las Vegas.
Two, consider on of the biggest gambling outlets in the country and the world - the stock market or perhaps the real estate businesses. Many would argue that the markets are nothing more than gambling, especially for those that really don't have direct knowledge of the companies and funds that they are invested in, or of the properties they may invest in.
Finally, consider the difficulty in trying to shutdown activities that are to many second nature. The idea of striking it rich by using knowledge of sporting events, teams, players and participants is alluring. People always think they know how games will turn out based on past performance and occurences, etc.

My own thoughts are that the U.S. governments efforts in this area are something that will do nothing more than enrich a small army of lawyers. Eventually the cases will be dropped completely, even if the government is somehow able to win a few early victories. Again, how can the U.S.A. dictate to foreign countries how their businesses operate and which customers those businesses are entitled to do business with?
Eventually a Judge will ask some of the same common sense questions I'm asking here, and when that happens, the cases will be tossed. At that point, the businesses and personnel involved will wind up filing their own lawsuits against the feds for interference in their business, lost profits and opportunities and more. They'll perhaps greatly enrich themselves and their army of lawyers on the federal dime, and we'll (as a country) get nothing for it all.

How should we really resolve the problem? Perhaps in the same way that many wish we'd solve the drug war -- legalize gambling and regulate it like we have Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms Perhaps states should get into the sports betting businesses, even if their partner/friends in the NFL, MLB and NBA don't like it. At least if there is a country full of legal betting options then things can be more easily controlled and regulated, and further the government can take a fully legal cut of the money that changes hands along the way. Winnings would be taxed like casino winnings are in Vegas, Atlantic City and other such locations, and the government could fatten it's coffers along the way.
They could also, of course, use the funds from the "sin taxes" to help educate people away from the evils of gambling, drinking, doing drugs and more. They could do as states have done and put the money towards education in general and help build more and better schools and such.
It's what they could do, and I believe what they should do, but is it what they will eventually do? Only time will tell for sure....


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terpfan1980
terpfan1980
Join Date 08/2004
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Reply #1 July 18, 2006 1:35:24 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
By the way, I know some could and might argue that the U.S. has shown in the past an ability to interfere in many areas and businesses outside it's own borders, and I suppose that is true, but how directly they are able to accomplish such things will clearly be an issue in this case.
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terpfan1980
Gideon MacLeish
Join Date 06/2004
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Reply #2 July 18, 2006 1:41:33 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I think that Internet gambling is WRONG! It's sick, and those who do it should be locked away from society because they are a clear and present danger!

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go buy my lottery tickets. I only use the store that's on the way to the Indian Casino, so I can save gas by making one trip.

(in other words, whadda buncha BOOLSHID! If gambling's wrong, let's shut down Vegas before we go after these sites!)
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terpfan1980
Dr Guy
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #3 July 18, 2006 1:52:10 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go buy my lottery tickets. I only use the store that's on the way to the Indian Casino, so I can save gas by making one trip.

I'll wager 3 to 2 that it dies after november.

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terpfan1980
ParaTed2k
Join Date 12/2004
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Reply #4 July 18, 2006 2:38:25 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
The most laughable joke in our society is the one that has the punchline, "because gambling is illegal in this state". Indian casinoes that aren't on reservations, river boats that sit on concrete footings, paramutual betting at dog & horse tracks and Hai Alai Frontons.... Tell me again where gambling is illegal in pretty much any state? I think Utah is the only state left where gambling is illegal... all the rest merely have gambling as monopolies, awarded through corrupt "agreements" and unconstitutional treaties between Governors and Tribes. I don't know about other states, but here in Wisconsin "legal" gambling happens because the tribes and governor Doyle have a multimillion dollar agreement to keep the billions the tribes make flowing. Governor Doyle is the only one in the state with the authority to "contract" with the tribes for gambling agreements. No oversight, no opportunity for any other government authority to challenge the "agreement"... not even the courts have any jurisdiction over them. A lot of people say that gambling breeds corruption... well, from where I sit, the biggest force that perpetuates that corruption are the laws that protect crooks. Let's quit lying and just admit that gambling is legal in almost every state.
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terpfan1980
schekker
Join Date 09/2001
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Reply #5 July 20, 2006 8:50:13 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
That most countries are at least a little hypocrite about gambling is not the issue here. The question is whether the US can prosecute foreign betting companies and yes, they can. Although the websites are hosted outside the U.S., they clearly target American citizens, so I believe the U.S. will have a pretty good case against them. Of course, extradiction might be a problem in some cases.
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terpfan1980
Dr Guy
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #6 July 20, 2006 8:57:34 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Of course, extradiction might be a problem in some cases.

I would think most cases.

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terpfan1980
drmiler
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #7 July 20, 2006 11:31:17 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
That most countries are at least a little hypocrite about gambling is not the issue here. The question is whether the US can prosecute foreign betting companies and yes, they can. Although the websites are hosted outside the U.S., they clearly target American citizens, so I believe the U.S. will have a pretty good case against them. Of course, extradition might be a problem in some cases.


I don't see how the US can prosecute any of them. To my way of thinking They're getting to big for their britches. These sites are "not" on US soil, and they are "not" run by US citizens. So therefore they "can't" be prosecuted under US law. Whether or not you think they are targeting US citizens is immaterial. If they don't live here and aren't doing it here, "how" can the US hold them responsible? And just an fyi.....extradition would be a "major" problem in every case.
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