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Matt Sontum
Matt Sontum
Join Date 02/2006
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Does anyone want better AI

Or would it be too much?

April 12, 2006 8:07:38 PM from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
It seems to me that the computer makes a number of serious errors in overall strategy, particuarly in the research paths it pursues. For example, I have learned that there are innurerable benefits to going after Star Republic and Democracy early on, yet the computer rarely gets these before the game is over. Also, it seems that any Neutral Civ can benefit immensely from XEno Ethics, yet the computer researches Habit Improvement instead.

In some sense I wouldn't want much better AI, since giving the computer decent AI AND production bonuses would make the game all but unwinnable, but still, having competent AI would make the game feel so much more real. Any one else notice some easily correctable errors in AI judgement? At a low level I'd say it's pretty good, most of the problems I see are in overall strategy. I already mentioned the number of unescorted transports and weaponless fighters...
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Matt Sontum
Marcathonas
Join Date 01/2006
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Reply #1 April 12, 2006 8:17:12 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
This AI is the best out there, end of. It doesn't cheat pre-tough. It goes after what is needed, and weaponless fighters are by design, they're to slow you up while the real force arrives. If they can't see any ships in their way, they will send an unescorted fighter as a human would. What difficulty are you playing at?
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Matt Sontum
Matt Sontum
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #2 April 12, 2006 8:22:19 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I told you, I am playing on tough. It wouldn't take a lot to have the computer either pair it's transports with escorts, or to have them end their turns on the same spots so that you couldn't get a free kill. I don't always escort my transports, but they all move upwards of 10 spaces per turn, and my fighters have already taken out all surrounding resistence. I don't think I've played a game where the somputer hasn't left an unescorted transport (or group of them) in harms way. Even if they didn't have the sensor range to see me, they should know not to leave them lying around my territory.
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Matt Sontum
Tommymac
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #3 April 12, 2006 8:35:23 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Of coarse we want a better Ai.

That said, this game has one of, if not the best, TBS Ai's out there.

One thing players can do is to try playing at a harder difficulty level if the game is not a challenge.

As you are doing, keep making suggestions to the devs as that is what will make the AI better. A good discussion of the proposals pro and con can only result in the devs getting more info to make the ultimate AI.

I see the issue as not one of unescorted Transports, but one of the AI not giving enough weight to researching sensors. If they know you are there, they don't send out unguarded transports. The human player will research sesors almost immediatly as they know in a War, information about your opponent is the key to winning. The AI doesn't act this way. Yet.
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Matt Sontum
Kalin
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #4 April 12, 2006 8:35:39 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Yeah, tech decisions need a little more work. Although as a modder, who don't play on the metaverse, I've found this easily fixed. I've gone through and increased the AI value of government, diplomacy and xeno ethics technologies (which are all at "3" or "1" when other "important" techs could be as high as 25) and have found that the AI have generally done a lot better. Unfortunately, this also means that even the weaker AI also gets a lot better... so it's not a change for everyone (especially not for those who just start out).

To be fair, most of my other gripes about the AI (starbase handling, trading, etc...) have been addressed, so I'm sure Brad will get to this one as well. Maybe in v1.2.

Although to be honest I'm really wishing that there were more "levels" of the AI, and to break up the link between that economic bonus/penalty with the routines that the AI can assess. (Am I the only one that wants to play against idiotic basic AI at 200% economy and max AI at 100% to see who wins?)
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Matt Sontum
xFlukex
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #5 April 12, 2006 8:38:28 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums

This AI is the best out there, end of. It doesn't cheat pre-tough. It goes after what is needed, and weaponless fighters are by design, they're to slow you up while the real force arrives. If they can't see any ships in their way, they will send an unescorted fighter as a human would. What difficulty are you playing at?


No, it's not the best AI out there. Take Civ4 for example.

How does a ship with 0 attack slow you down? A ship with 0 attack has 0% chance to win the battle, it is there only to stop super fast transports. Maybe it slows your fleet down by 1 move, but then again, your fleet can just ignore 0 attack fleets.

I also do not send in an unescorted fighter, that is dumb and just free exp for your enemy. I send in heavy fleets with a radar ship for scouting.

I vote yes for better AI. Beta 3A and 4 have good AI changes, gonna wait till frogboy uploads beta4.
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Matt Sontum
Josh_88
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #6 April 12, 2006 9:44:50 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
come on people! if you want tougher ai play at higher levels, there are people out there who struggle on easier difficulties, i almost always send transports unescorted because i make them fast so they cant be caught, and its always worked for me, i have lost maybe 5 at the most in my games, and i am fine with that. the game really, plays like a person would play, even at your best, you probably make mistakes and sometimes do things that arent real smart. id rather have the bugs fixed before having the ai worked on again, all the bugs and scoring problems have made me stop playng completely till they get a solid v 1.1 released.
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Matt Sontum
Tommymac
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #7 April 12, 2006 10:48:00 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
@xFlukex
Comparing the Civ4 and the GalCiv2 Ai is a matter of taste. Both are good. Both have their good and bad points. Personally I'll give the edge to the GalCiv2 Ai. But I don't like Civ4 at all, so I'm prejudicial. This could be argued until the cows come home, but that would be hijacking this thread, and I'd rather not go there . I'll agree to disagree and move on.


Back on topic, I agree with Kalin that I too would want more AI options for advanced players as he describes. I also agree with Josh that I want them to finish up the other stuff. I think Frogboy and company are doing a great job doing both Ai and other things too however.

Frogboy did mention in one of the change log journal entries that he hopes to put the AI decision algorythym stuff into an XML file someday. So we can tweak it ourselves. That will be the ultimate.

Personnally, I am happily playing at tough level for now - and find the aI very challenging. I know that sooner or later I will move up - I hope by that time the AI is even better so the bonus stuff will not be as much of a factor.

BTW, vxFlukex , Beta 4 has been released. I'll come back and comment on things I'd like to see improved after I play it for a few days - I have not had time to really sit down and play the Beta3 versions much yet they have come out so fast.
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Matt Sontum
gallagher118
Join Date 07/2005
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Reply #8 April 13, 2006 12:12:19 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Sensors need to to be redone. Eyes of the universe is too good. It makes it so the human doesn't need to waste space on sensors.

Sensors should be overall better, and the eyes should make give them +1 or 2 range per sensor. This way you'd always have to think about what sensors to employ, and hopefully the AI's blindness disadvantage would be reduced.
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Matt Sontum
Empyrean
Join Date 03/2006
+1
Reply #9 April 13, 2006 2:50:27 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Does anyone want better AI

Of course, that's like asking if anyone wants a free dollar.

That said, the AI is definitely one of the strong points in GalCiv2. Horror stories from newbie reviewers, combined with the "The AI is not cheating, it's just better than you" unofficial explaination, motivated me to buy the game in the first place. I'm sure glad I did.

If they can make the AI better, they will. There are still a couple of quirks, but overall the AI is fantastic. It is a tribute to the game's variety that the AI can act so differently for different civs and yet present a challenge with practically any of them.
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Matt Sontum
MonkeyLogic
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #10 April 13, 2006 11:05:56 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
No, it's not the best AI out there. Take Civ4 for example.


Civ4's AI is a joke when compare to GalCiv2's. Are you sure you played the same two games as us?

however, GalCiv2's AI still need much improvements. Hopefully stardock will continue work on it.
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