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Sinnoch
Sinnoch
Join Date 11/2003
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Are all ship hulls created equal?

Do different ship race styles have different point values?

March 19, 2006 1:06:29 AM from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Okay here is a problem I ran into today. Current game (Difficulty - Challenging) - I'm the Terrain Alliance (using their ship style) at war with the Dregin. I currently have more technology than the Dregin (I have everything the Dregin have based on the diplomacy screen - they have no techs available for trade).

On a medium hull ship they have constructed a heavy fighter with the following (ECM, 2 superior deflectors, 3 Railgun IV, and 1 Stinger IV). The problem is that I cannot duplicate this ship. Not even using higher technology - like Railgun VI - which takes less space. It just won't fit on a human style medium hull.

So my question is do the different race styles have different amount of points on their basic hulls? Or are they all the same? If they are the same this might be a bug.

Any thoughts?
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Sinnoch
Kanaric
Join Date 04/2003
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Reply #1 March 19, 2006 1:19:01 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Bonuses from events or resources.
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Sinnoch
WTF_Chuck
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Reply #2 March 19, 2006 1:27:33 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
specifically the drengin have a weapons racial bonus.

Also consideration should be givin to the idea that the dregin could possibly be further along on minturization then you etc.
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Sinnoch
syneris
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #3 March 19, 2006 1:27:59 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I thought heavy fighters were small. Anyway, what about engines, sensors, lifesupport? It may be some weird glitch. I've tried to duplicate one of my own custom ships and couldn't. It was at the start of a game. I could build a colony ship I had designed in a previous game, but any attempt to recreate it was 1 range and 1 speed short. The components matched, though wouldn't fit. It was boggling how I couldn't create a ship to match one that I could build.
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Sinnoch
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Reply #4 March 19, 2006 1:30:30 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
there are also trade goods and galactic achievements that affect ships
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Sinnoch
Franco fx
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Reply #5 March 19, 2006 1:35:12 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
How far off are your hulls? The Drengin get some military bonus (which you could also choose) that may give them a bit more room on their ships but it wouldn't be more that 4-5 points, I would think.

The AI also hunts anomalies with a passion and that could provide some starship bonus as well.
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Sinnoch
psychoravin
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #6 March 19, 2006 1:37:33 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Yep bonuses from anomalies give those kinds of advantages. All things are not equal in the Galactic universe and that is as it should be. Just because so n so can do it doesn't mean you should be able to. It would appear they found a bonus minaturzation anomalie or one that increased a particular hull size.

Also sort of a way to find out their "abilities", put 10 to 20 points into espionage and check out their minaturzation stat. I always put a few points into espionage against my enemy or someone I think will be an enemy soon.
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Sinnoch
Lazarous
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Reply #7 March 19, 2006 2:06:30 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
What sort of bonuses do anomalies give that can result in this sort of disparity in ship designs? I've had the same thing happen to me and i still don't know what the cause was.
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Sinnoch
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Reply #8 March 19, 2006 3:39:40 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
What sort of bonuses do anomalies give that can result in this sort of disparity in ship designs? I've had the same thing happen to me and i still don't know what the cause was.


There are anomalies that give +miniaturization (i think), and I know there are random alignment choices that give +miniaturization. Also there are various things that can raise speed/sensor distance like some of the galactic wonders.
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Sinnoch
Spearthrower
Join Date 01/2006
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Reply #9 March 19, 2006 4:33:01 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
How do you know exactly which components he has on his ships? If you are referring to the numbers then there are lots of ways he could have done it.

E.g. Colonise a planet and get a high +%Starship bonus. Mine a series of military resources. Have higher miniaturisation and weapons mastery than you. Have things like Hyperion Shrinker.

But in answer to your question, as far as I have seen from playing the different races... the hull types are exactly the same, only abilities and in game bonuses affect the amount you can put on them.
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Sinnoch
misin
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Reply #10 March 19, 2006 5:54:41 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
If you want to solve this once and for all, find the name of the ship, ie defender 2431 and then trade for it.
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Sinnoch
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Reply #11 March 19, 2006 6:19:52 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
How do you know exactly which components he has on his ships?


Ok.... I was half asleep when I posted this.... and it tells!!
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Sinnoch
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Reply #12 March 19, 2006 10:20:39 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Okay - both of us have the same minaturization score of 25%. My spying level is at the highest - that lets you figure out everything about another race. To find exactly what is on the ship click on the ship (if it is in a fleet highlight one ship) and click on details - it will tell you everything that is on the ship.

As I said before - I have every tech that the Dregin have (as they have none that I can trade for).

The ship is a Frigate not a Heavy Fighter. But it is still a medium hull.

Here is the detail you can see from the ship:

Ship Name: Frigate M5-3 6887
Ship Type: Frigate M5
Ship Owner: Drengin Empire
Level: 8
Current Hit Points: 12/37
Cost: 297
Beam/Shield: 0/3
Missile/Point Defense: 4/1
Mass Driver/Armor: 6/0
Speed: 3
Range: 2.5pc
Sensor Range: 3
Max Capcity: 0
Ship Components:
+ Medium (Hull)
+ ECM (Point Defense +1)
+ Superior Deflectors (Shields +1)
+ Superior Deflectors (Shields +1)
+ Railgun MK IV (Mass Drivers +1)
+ Railgun MK IV (Mass Drivers +1)
+ Railgun MK IV (Mass Drivers +1)
+ Stinger IV (Missile +2)

I cannot built this ship with a minaturization score of 25% (the same as the Drengin). Is it possible that this is a stock ship (Frigate) and the stock ships bend the rules a bit?
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Sinnoch
TheRealWarpstorm
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Reply #13 March 19, 2006 10:46:22 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Many of the core designs can not be built from scrathc when you first unlock the techs.
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Sinnoch
psychoravin
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Reply #14 March 19, 2006 11:09:03 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
It's possible that it could also be getting a minaturzation bonus from it's orgional ship building planet. These are things you can't ever see. All you are seeing is a base figure for that race, it's not showing every planet bonus it's receiving. For instance I have a planet with +29% bonus to production, it's not something you will see if you inspect that planet, but, it is something I have and nearly 200 production points per turn. Just face it the Drengin are the better man.
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Sinnoch
Lazarous
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Reply #15 March 19, 2006 2:25:04 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I'll just add that, like Sinnod I have looked at a ship that i was simply unable to replicate with equivalent or higher tech - in my case it was also a frigate, but with 3 superior deflectors and 9 laser V's. I know of only one building that increases miniaturization, and that's a galactic wonder which hadn't been built at the time. I've never encountered anomalies that give miniaturization bonuses, nor have i seen planets with that sort of bonus. The wiki doesn't show a miniaturization anomaly, btw. To me this sort of thing just screams 'bug' since I can't seem to get a reasonable explanation as to why the AI could build a ship that had something like 90 slots for components in a medium hull.
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Sinnoch
misin
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Reply #16 March 19, 2006 4:02:53 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Its looking increasinlgy likely that hat oyur describting is a bug, a cant think of any other explanation for it if all the information is correct, anyway trade for the ship and acquire if for yourself to be 100% certain. Just to rule out any possible bugs in the spying system.
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Sinnoch
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Reply #17 March 19, 2006 7:50:54 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Take a look at the Drengin's abilities in the Report. Maybe he has a miniaturisation bonus.
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Sinnoch
Lazarous
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Reply #18 March 19, 2006 8:17:23 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Take a look at the Drengin's abilities in the Report. Maybe he has a miniaturisation bonus.


I cannot built this ship with a minaturization score of 25% (the same as the Drengin). Is it possible that this is a stock ship (Frigate) and the stock ships bend the rules a bit?
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Sinnoch
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Reply #19 March 19, 2006 9:38:50 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
this might have to do with your difficulty- i forget which ones start adding bonuses, but as you get higher up they are huge, upwards of 200% bonuses to various stats (production, miniturization, etc). Ive never really payed attention to the AI's individual ships, mostly because i dont get myself involved in wars until im at the point in the tech tree where i cant lose and what the AI has doesnt matter at all. I play on suicidal, and im guessing with the all the bonuses the AI recieves, it would be tough to "rush" them so to speak, because all of their ships would be better early on due to the bonuses before your tech is much better than theres. My guess is that challanging difficulty starts adding AI bonuses and that they might have a 50% boost to miniturization or something along those lines, which is why the drengin ship has all that crap on it.
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Sinnoch
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Reply #20 March 19, 2006 10:02:19 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Lazarous - he was basing that on having equal miniaturisation tech.... not necessarily taking into account any racial abilities. Furthermore, if the Drengin had picked up any in game bonus to miniaturisation, it would be in their racial report.
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Sinnoch
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Reply #21 March 19, 2006 11:41:26 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
The Racial report shows the Drengin at 25%. Any anomally bonus that you receive will be in the racial report under spying.
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Sinnoch
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Reply #22 March 20, 2006 3:39:34 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Yeah, this has happened to me too. I posted about this a few days ago and got the same people spamming "oh maybe he has more +mini" He didn't, we had the same stuff.

To find out what it is, you need to fight the drengins and see if they send anymore of that ship at you. If they don't send anymore of that design, then it is likely that it is some freaky ship that he bought from another race or the planet had some weird bonus on it. If you see the same ship design come after you in groups, then we got a problem here.

I don't think it can be a bonus that the AI gets, I mean if it was all of his ships would be better than what I could make and the AI still makes inefficient ships at the highest difficulty levels.

Actually, the 'bugged' enemy ship I met had superior deflectors on too(that and Laser V's), maybe the superior deflectors for the AI has a typo and is only 1 space or something.
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Sinnoch
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Reply #23 March 20, 2006 11:42:44 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I don't think the Drengin bought them from anyone - since it was their racial ship type.

And there were a lot of them - every Frigate they had seemed to have more than it should have.
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