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Gideon MacLeish

Join Date 06/2004

I never said Goodbye

OK, this will be my final word on "the subject". I'll move on from here. But there's one thing more that needs to be said, and it needs to be said in front of all of you.

First of all, this is not an apology. I don't feel I have anything to apologize for. Nor do I feel Sabrina or Simon have anything to apologize for. We said what we said, and we are who we are. What resulted from the recent conflict was simply a byproduct of who Sabrina is, and she should be proud of that, at least. During her time here, she was always a polarizing figure, and she always will be that person, just somewhere else. The reaction to her leaving was no exception. Sabrina brought out the best of us and the worst of us at the same time, and the results were sometimes amusing, sometimes alarming. She was who she was, and in being so, taught a lot of us to be who we are without apology. There's too little of that in the world.

I disagree with a lot of what she said. And I probably won't change in that regard. But that doesn't change my appreciation and respect for who she is. It's always tumultuous when someone moves on, but we'll get over it. We always have and always will.

But in all of this conflict, I forgot my manners. I forgot to say goodbye, and that is, perhaps, all that needed to be said.

Goodbye, Sabrina. We WILL miss you!

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Draginol

Join Date 03/2001

+137

I certainly will miss her stuff as well. I think she has a keen mind.

Her husband simply has issues and just seemed unable to prevent himself from escalating situations that could have been benign. It is as if every challenge he faces is turned into a contest of wills or something.

At the end of the day, communities are pretty predictable.

The Flame warrior guide is remarkably accurate

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/admin.htm

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/rebelwithoutclue.htm

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It is, unfortunate, that she confuses a lack of loyalty towards her husband to being a lack of loyalty for her. If she has been simply removed, without notice, without provocation I think many people would have felt that this community wasn't worth being part of. I know I'd feel that way. A community that seems like it's run in an arbitrary fashion typically dies off. And I am sure to her and a few others, it no doubt feels that way.

Her husband simply has issues and just seemed unable to prevent himself from escalating situations that could have been benign. It is as if every challenge he faces is turned into a contest of wills or something.

What I don't understand is the need to psychoanalyze her and Simon. She didn't "confuse" anything. She made a choice. She chose not to be here without Simon. It wasn't a confusion of loyalty, it was a simple choice made on her part.

What I find interesting, Mr. Wardell, is that you push off any blame that might fall on you for the situation. You have so much responsibility and you allow us to use JU FREE FREE FREE and you throw so much money away on all of us, yet you can't be honest with yourself and your financially-sucking followers and admit that your response was just a little emotionally driven, you just brush it off as "that's how online communities are."

I'll be honest with you: I don't think your decision was the right one. I feel like it was made while you were overly-tired, stressed out, and generally pissy. And if I may make an observation, for saying that you "haven't really been paying a whole lot of attention" to the situation, you've commented on nearly every article on the topic out there.

You made an observation about me over on Simon's thread. You had this to say:

Reply By: Draginol Posted: Wednesday, March 01, 2006

Marcie:

If I might make an observation, I think one of the issues you run into is that you take criticism as a personal attack. There is a difference.

I honestly don't think you're all that different.

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Marcie, I have two things to say in regards to your comment:

A) You (as well as myself) have a miniscule amount of experience with online communities compared to Brad. He has been dealing with this stuff for most of your life (20yrs). Therefore, your opinion carries very little weight.

You are the queen of "whatever" and "then you don't have to read my stuff" reactions. Brad's record of taking constructive criticism is far better than yours. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.

Gid, I think you are a very decent person. I know you disagree with how things went down on both sides yet maintain respect for the participants. My hat is off to you.

LW sees only her husband's side of what happened and I see my husband's side. I'm just sorry she had nasty things to say about anyone who didn't see things her way. I know or a fact that dharmagirl has been a good friend to her but she was very venomous to her during all of this. That is one thing about LW I don't respect.

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Draginol

Join Date 03/2001

+137

Marcie,

What "situation" is there? LW's husband got banned, she chose to go with him.

Regarding "psychoanalyzing". Well, I look and see a bunch of blogs by people who feel like they've been attacked by LW on her new blog or whatever for not being loyal to her. So there it is.

What constructive criticism have I taken as a personal attack? Can you provide an example? Do you consider Simon's comments as "constructive"?

I haven't ever claimed my response to Simon wasn't emotionally driven. Where have I claimed otherwise?

I believe my exact words were:

"I'm not above making blogs or users disappear from public view simply because they got on my nerves."

Simon pressed my buttons. I warned him of the consequences of that. He proceeded to escalate. I removed him. How much more clear could I possibly be? I'm a pretty straight forward guy. I don't try to obfuscate or cover things up.

I bring up the "money money money" thing when someone tries to argue that I need to kiss someone's rear end for honoring us with their presence. Or if someone argues that I have some obligation to run the site according to their whims. I have the right to remove someone for getting on my nerves because it's my site.

Given that this site is now almost 4 years old, I think it's fair to say I've established a track record. I don't casually ban people. Lots of people get on my nerves. And if they push too hard, I'll send them a yellow flag. How much a person can push depends on how much capital they've built in the community through their works and such. Simon had never been anything but a vile little troll in my estimation who had contribute nothing of value to the community. So he couldn't press his luck as much as someone else.

As for not paying attention, I thought I was being pretty clear. I hadn't been paying attention up to that point. So once I started seeing posts, I started looking more, commenting, etc. Now that my other projects have calmed down a bit, I have more time.

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A) You (as well as myself) have a miniscule amount of experience with online communities compared to Brad. He has been dealing with this stuff for most of your life (20yrs). Therefore, your opinion carries very little weight.

You are the queen of "whatever" and "then you don't have to read my stuff" reactions. Brad's record of taking constructive criticism is far better than yours. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.

So...I should basically fark off because he's older than I am? "Whatever".

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So...I should basically fark off because he's older than I am?

No, you should 'fark off' or "whatever" because he knows what he is talking about and you don't.

And....Thanks for proving my point.

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Marcie, I never suggested you leave, or 'fark off' or anything of the sort. You have your right to your opinion. I am just saying, it really holds very little weight. It really doesn't matter what your "feelings" are on why Brad did what he did. I personally think he made it pretty clear.

As for Brad's observation about you not being able to take constructive criticism, he was far from the only one. Dharma and I both got "whatever" or "you're free to not read my stuff" comments when we suggested the same. As for Brad not being any different than you....ha! Like he said, can you point out the 'constructive criticism' you are referring to?

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My apologies, Gid. If you want to delete any of this due to hijacking of your thread, I will certainly understand.

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Draginol

Join Date 03/2001

+137

Hmm. So Marcie makes a bunch of allegations about me, and I respond and then she ignores and just answers Jill.

Is she just waiting for more instructions on what to parrot from LW or is she going to simply pretend that I didn't answer her allegations and repeat them at a later time? Or will she answer them?

Just to recap:

1) What are some examples of constructive criticism that I've taken as a personal attack?

2) Where did I imply that my reasoning for getting rid of Simon wasn't "emotionally based" given that I explicitly said "I'm not above making blogs or users disappear from public view simply because they got on my nerves."

Those are two allegations in particular I would like you to explain.

And I'll answer a third: LW isn't confused on loyalty to her husband. The confusion stems from her expecting OTHER people to simply leave because she chose to. It's not friendship or loyalty she demands, it's obedience.

I don't make such demands. I don't ask people to stay. If they are having a good time, I think they should stay. If they're not having a good time, then they might want to consider leaving. JoeUser is kind of like an on-going party. It's supposed to be fun. If it's not, then one must ask themselves why they're here.

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Unfortunately I have an apartment to clean, dishes to take care of, and relaxing to do, because my life isn't filled with trying to line my pockets so I can belittle other people. This isn't my life, and it's a pity that it's yours. You may host this site, but I don't recall you setting a "deadline" for me to respond by. Pardon me, oh gracious king!

Frankly, I can't imagine why you'd even want me to respond, since you seem to already have it set in your mind that my opinion is of little weight. I'm also obviously waiting for an email from Sabrina so that I can refute you with her words (what a load of BULL). I am capable of no logical thought, and therefore what's the point, Brad?

You're not capable fo listening to what I have to say, or even believing what I have to say I say for myself, so consider yourself the victor here..

~strokes Brad's ego~

Oh...I have a song for you. It's to the tune of the "Doxology." I came up with most of the words myself though, because I am oh so talented.

Praise Brad from whom all blessings flow!
Praise him all creautres in fear below.
Praise him above all web hosts!
Praise Stardock, Brad, and all his posts!

Aaaaaa---men!

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Reply By: JillUser Posted: Saturday, March 04, 2006
My apologies, Gid. If you want to delete any of this due to hijacking of your thread, I will certainly understand.

I can agree with Jill on something at least...most things I guess, except when it comes to opinions about recent JU events.

I apologize for taking this where it doesn't belong, and you can feel free to delete anything I've posted or ask me to do it myself. I'd be more than happy.

I think it's stupid for this to get personal. Because it's really none of my business, and it's over. While *I* don't agree with the actions you took or why you took them, it's not my site. I doubt you'll open your mind to the things I have to say about the topic, so I'll just leave it lie the way it is, Brad and Deb. It's over, and like you've said, and I've said, life will move on.

let's hope it moves on faster rather than slower.

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Frankly, I can't imagine why you'd even want me to respond, since you seem to already have it set in your mind that my opinion is of little weight.

That was me, not Brad.

my life isn't filled with trying to line my pockets so I can belittle other people.

That doesn't even make any sense.

You may host this site, but I don't recall you setting a "deadline" for me to respond by.

This is silly too.

You managed to totally avoid answering his question to your claim. Bravo.

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I'll repeat this for you so maybe you can take the time to see it. See? I said this:

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KFC Kickin For Christ

Join Date 11/2005

+93

Marcie...you call yourself a Christian?

I'm thinking there's not enough evidence to convict you of this right here.

I think the Doxology was way out of line.

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bakerstreet chuckles quietly and waits for the inevitable...

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Marcie...you call yourself a Christian?

I'm thinking there's not enough evidence to convict you of this right here.

I think the Doxology was way out of line.

Ummmmm....and you think it's Christian to do this?

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Out of respect for Gid I am done here.

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Draginol

Join Date 03/2001

+137

To summarize, Marcie made some allegations, those allegations were responded to and Marcie never addressed the response. But she did manage to attribute to me things other people say.

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Ummm...what Jill said. I was done with this yesterday because a) like Jill said, this isn't the place, and

it's over and done with and its time to move on with life.

I hope you're big enough to do the same, Brad.

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Draginol

Join Date 03/2001

+137

Marcie, the longer you know me the more you'll understand that I'm a small...petty man.

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My dear gawd.....this is ridiculous. Marcie, that doxology was totally uncalled for. Nobody's trying to hurt you here - but you're doing an awfully good job of hurting yourself.

Please don't tell me that I 'dont have to read' what you're saying or give me a 'whatever' response. I'm trying to help you out a bit because I think you've got yourself tied up in all kinds of knots.

Take a step back, a deep breath, and calm down a bit. Please.

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Out of respect for Gid I am done here.

Thanks, Jill. I'm not going to delete the comments, but I'm going to ask that anyone who wants to "pile on" do so elsewhere. This was written as my goodbye to Sabrina, a goodbye that I felt was necessary for someone I had come to appreciate so much. If others want to add their goodbyes, they should feel free to do so, but the battle over who was right and who was wrong has gone on too long.

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