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stevendedalus
stevendedalus
Join Date 11/2003
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Male Chauvinism

March 2, 2006 1:53:26 AM from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

I know male-chauvinists resent liberated women, but is it carrying it too far to court-martial SPC Katherine Jashinski of the Texas National Guard for changing her mind [surely, a woman’s prerogative] by filing for conscientious objector status and refusing to be deployed to Iraq? Why not relent as good chauvinists by patting her cheek along with a loving sentiment: "Okay, honey, return to the kitchen.”

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stevendedalus
Dr Guy
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #1 March 2, 2006 7:30:06 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Ouch!  I see flames coming from the ladies!
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stevendedalus
Tova7
Join Date 09/2005
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Reply #2 March 2, 2006 9:02:20 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

If she signed up, put her name on the dotted line, she should get her ass over there.  IT is called the MILITARY for a reason....its not bon bons at the country club.

Signing up for the benefits and then suddenly getting a "conscience" when the unthinkable becomes reality...well...she needs to go to jail.

Besides if they let her off, how many others would do the same thing?

Pffft. 

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JillUser
Join Date 11/2003
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Reply #3 March 2, 2006 10:21:07 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

If she signed up, put her name on the dotted line, she should get her ass over there.


Amen Tova! Look at how many women already get pregnant just in time to avoid deployment. I know I am going to be very unpopular for this but I have never felt that women 'gaining the right' to be in the military was a good thing. If you have the right to be in the military then you also have the responsibility. If there is ever a reinstatement of the draft, I don't see how they will get around drafting women as well as men.

Oddly, a lot of women who speak out on behalf of women in the military are against them being drafted. This is hypocritical in my opinion. If you want equal rights then you better damn well be prepared for equal responsibility.
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stevendedalus
Tova7
Join Date 09/2005
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Reply #4 March 2, 2006 11:24:22 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Oddly, a lot of women who speak out on behalf of women in the military are against them being drafted. This is hypocritical in my opinion. If you want equal rights then you better damn well be prepared for equal responsibility

I agree with this and will go one further.

There are certain jobs in the military Women SHOULDN'T be allowed to do.  I am not saying women aren't SMART enough.

Do you remember the movie "GI Jane" with Demi Moore?  I thought it was one of the dumbest things Hollywerid ever put out.  Did anyone notice that Jane had to constantly be working out to just be "average."  While the guys could lay around on their bunks and chat, she had to be doing sit ups or whatever.

Anyway, if I am trapped somewhere by terrorists, or in a burning building, DON'T send a woman!  Send a big strong guy. haha.  And cute would be good too...Buwhaahah 

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ParaTed2k
Join Date 12/2004
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Reply #5 March 2, 2006 11:28:49 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I fully support the "conscienscous objector" program and have even helped a few troops apply for it. However, I am VERY suspiscious of ANYONE (male or female) who waits until getting deployment orders before applying for it. When someone applies for CO status there is always an investigation, it's just part of the process. If you are suggesting that Spc Jashinski's request should be treated differently because she is a female then I'd suggest that you are the one with the problem.

To point to male chauvanism is just childish.
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stevendedalus
Dr Guy
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #6 March 2, 2006 11:38:27 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Anyway, if I am trapped somewhere by terrorists, or in a burning building, DON'T send a woman! Send a big strong guy. haha. And cute would be good too...Buwhaahah

Hmm....is that female chavinism.....

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stevendedalus
Tova7
Join Date 09/2005
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Reply #7 March 2, 2006 11:46:42 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Hmm....is that female chavinism


Perhaps, but I like to think of it as more a survival instinct!
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Tova7
Join Date 09/2005
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Reply #8 March 2, 2006 11:51:03 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I fully support the "conscientious objector" program


so do I..but I believe the only way to be a real CO is to NOT join the military (an all volunteer force) in the first place. I believe the only TRUE CO's are ones who believe killing of ANY type (militarily) is wrong. And they aren't likely to join up.
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ParaTed2k
Join Date 12/2004
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Reply #9 March 2, 2006 12:20:24 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Tova
so do I..but I believe the only way to be a real CO is to NOT join the military (an all volunteer force) in the first place. I believe the only TRUE CO's are ones who believe killing of ANY type (militarily) is wrong. And they aren't likely to join up.


That is true, but we all change along the way. The CO program understands this and has a process for those who have already enlisted to apply. However, there are also safeguards in place to maintain the integrity of the program by weeding out the true Consciencious Objector from the Convenience Objector.
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JillUser
Join Date 11/2003
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Reply #10 March 2, 2006 9:29:10 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

ParaTed, I'm with you but in all likelihood, she joined the guard figuring she would never get deployed.  She got faced with deployment and pulled the old CO.  Like I said, plenty of women go the conenient pregnancy route.

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ParaTed2k
Join Date 12/2004
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Reply #11 March 2, 2006 11:54:53 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
ParaTed, I'm with you but in all likelihood, she joined the guard figuring she would never get deployed. She got faced with deployment and pulled the old CO. Like I said, plenty of women go the conenient pregnancy route.


Don't I know that. We were sending an average of 20 females home from Desert Storm every week for pregnancy. Of course, in the first few months, some were deployed not knowing that they were pregnant, but...

Of course, the NOW nags got involved and threatened lawsuits against the military if any of the women who got abortions once they were home were "threatened" with deployment.

I guess pregnancy is the only legal form of malingering.
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stevendedalus
Dr Guy
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #12 March 3, 2006 7:26:52 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Perhaps, but I like to think of it as more a survival instinct!

How about a big strong ugly guy?

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stevendedalus
stevendedalus
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Reply #13 March 3, 2006 1:37:39 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
If you are suggesting that Spc Jashinski's request should be treated differently because she is a female then I'd suggest that you are the one with the problem.

To point to male chauvanism is just childish.


Not suggesting anything. Can't deny male chauvinism welcomes favoring the weaker sex.
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stevendedalus
stevendedalus
Join Date 11/2003
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Reply #14 March 3, 2006 1:42:48 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I know I am going to be very unpopular for this but I have never felt that women 'gaining the right' to be in the military was a good thing.
No criticism here from most males. I believe most NOW folks do not approve of women in combat.
Look at how many women already get pregnant just in time to avoid deployment.
Yes, abysmal--it reminds me of in the midst of the early draft during WWII, there was a rush of married males impregnating their wives in order to be deferred.
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stevendedalus
Gideon MacLeish
Join Date 06/2004
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Reply #15 March 3, 2006 1:47:59 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
If she signed up, put her name on the dotted line, she should get her ass over there. IT is called the MILITARY for a reason....its not bon bons at the country club.


BINGO. If there was a draft, and if we conscripted women, her CO status should be recognized. As an enlistee, she should do her sworn duty or pay the penalties for failure to do so.

Makes me pretty durn glad I didn't wind up enlisting in '88...I would have faced the same dilemna during the first Gulf War
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stevendedalus
Texas Wahine
Join Date 08/2004
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Reply #16 March 3, 2006 1:58:33 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Ship her ass out.

Her sex shouldn't enter into the equation.

These ploys (by males and females, although they are generally more used by females) put a burden on the solid military members who don't shirk their duty.

If you are morally opposed to war...DON'T JOIN THE MILITARY. The excellent benefits the military receives is compensation for extraordinary hardship. If you're not going to stand up and take the hardship, you don't deserve the benefits.
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stevendedalus
Tova7
Join Date 09/2005
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Reply #17 March 3, 2006 2:00:37 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
but we all change along the way. The CO program understands this and has a process for those who have already enlisted to apply.


Not to put to fine a point on it....BUT (hehe) someone swears an OATH and joins the military, enjoying the benefits and the responsibility. Then they decide killing is bad.

Ok, I can get that. So now their desire NOT to kill supercedes their PROMISE to do it if called upon.

Look, I get the program. My problem with it is this.

1. Someone says they have an ethical dilema about killing.

2. That same person doesn't have an ethical dilema about SWEARING an oath before God and not keeping it.

Hmmmmmm.
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stevendedalus
Tova7
Join Date 09/2005
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Reply #18 March 3, 2006 2:01:29 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
How about a big strong ugly guy?


Oh if I have too...
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