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NobleJms
NobleJms
Join Date 09/2005
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My friend wants to borrow my game :(

March 1, 2006 5:34:31 PM from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
The other day my friend came over to my room (college dorms) and saw me playing Gal Civ 2, and I was telling him what an awesome game GC2 is and such. Today he came over and wants to borrow the game from me to give it a try. My initial reaction is "Great! Finally someone in my dorm can realize how great the game is! "; my second reaction is "Oh no, how am I suppose to play if I let him borrow the game?! ".

I know I read somewhere that once you have GC2 installed on your PC, you never need the disk again. So would it be OK if I install the game on his computer so that he can try out the game without the CD? What are some things that I need to be careful about before I do that?

Of course, I am going to make sure that if he likes it, he better gives his support to the developers by eventually buying it from a store. But for now I just want him to have a taste of GC2.
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NobleJms
NobleJms
Join Date 09/2005
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Reply #1 March 1, 2006 5:43:04 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Just one more question: will installing the game on any other computer renders the game on my current computer unplayable? Thanks!
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Bichur
Join Date 10/2003
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Reply #2 March 1, 2006 5:49:18 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
What does the EULA say?
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Reply #3 March 1, 2006 5:51:02 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
What is EULA?
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greggbert
Join Date 01/2005
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Reply #4 March 1, 2006 5:51:14 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Well, it's pretty clear in the agreement that licenses are not transferrable from one person to another, so NO.

And you cannot set up a situation where you will play on more than one machine at the same time, so NO.

The fact that they didn't copy protect the CD itself was to make it more convient for you to play the game legally, not permission to break the law

If you really want your friend to have a taste of the game you have four legal options:

1) have him come over to your machine and play it for a few hours while you are in class.
2) Lend him your computer.
3) HAVE HIM DOWNLOAD AND PLAY THE DEMO!!!!! That shoud give him a tasteM
It's cheaper than most games.
Good luck with your decision as to whether to pirate the game for your friend.

PS: It would not be fun if you found your copy deactivated permanently, or if they decided to take legal action against you.
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NobleJms
Feud
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #5 March 1, 2006 6:06:25 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
EULA is the End User Liscense Agreement (that thing during install that you always have to click "Yes, i agree" on).

If you just wait a couple weeks, there should be a demo out, he can try that.
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Gui-Jay
Join Date 04/2003
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Reply #6 March 1, 2006 6:18:07 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Hmmm, if you install without SD central, he won't have access to the updates and bonus stuff - which is Stardock's stated "Anti-piracy" protection.

It may break the EULA, but if it's what it takes to make him buy the game then I think it's worth it.

As for multiple-platform-installation, I think it's just wrong not to use one of the game's greater asset - being able to play without having to switch a CD around. As long as you're the one playing.

In short, I guess my philosophy is - share as much as you want, as long as you make sure they buy the game in the end

(But with such a great game, who -woldn't- buy the game?)
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Coplann
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Reply #7 March 1, 2006 6:42:13 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
tell him toeither buy GC2 or to stfu.

the more success GC2 has, the more time and resources stardock will spent on improving it (and the expansion pack which hopefully adds multiplayer capabilities) and the better for future projects like Master of Magic 2. Its in all our mutual interest that ppl who want to play it buy it.
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RichVR
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #8 March 1, 2006 6:54:35 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Let him play it on your computer. If he installs it on his computer that's piracy. "He'll eventually buy it" is a lame excuse. Sorry.
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TitanTen2
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Reply #9 March 1, 2006 7:36:14 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Let him play it on your computer. If he installs it on his computer that's piracy. "He'll eventually buy it" is a lame excuse. Sorry.


I love this arguement. Its like if i let someone borrow my dvd its piracy, if i play it on my computer then on my dvd player its piracy. If i use a marker on the cd its piracy. If i fly the jolly roger while wearing an eyepatch and singing yo ho yo ho its piracy. What if i have 2 computers is that piracy... its just plain stupid paranoia i swear.
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Ricree
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Reply #10 March 1, 2006 7:46:56 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums


I love this arguement. Its like if i let someone borrow my dvd its piracy, if i play it on my computer then on my dvd player its piracy. If i use a marker on the cd its piracy. If i fly the jolly roger while wearing an eyepatch and singing yo ho yo ho its piracy. What if i have 2 computers is that piracy... its just plain stupid paranoia i swear.


Not a proper analogy. If you really want to use the DVD comparison, than what we are talking about is similar to making a copy of the DVD and handing it to your friend to use.
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Reply #11 March 1, 2006 7:51:06 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
If you have two computers, that's just fine. We're not Microsoft - plus we figure you can only really play a game once at a time.

If you have a computer and your friend has a computer, that's less OK. They obviously derive benefit from playing the game. We're weilling to let this slide for members of your immediate family in the same house who want to beat you on the metaverse.

NobleJms: By all means, let your friend play the game - on your computer. When he wants a copy of his own for his comptuer, please let him know where he can get one legally, that he can update by himself and which is guaranteed not to cause any hassle for you in the future with respect to activation and the like. And thank you for taking the time to ask.
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Sunjah_Kahn
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #12 March 1, 2006 7:57:53 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Let him play it on your computer. If he installs it on his computer that's piracy. "He'll eventually buy it" is a lame excuse. Sorry.


I love this arguement. Its like if i let someone borrow my dvd its piracy, if i play it on my computer then on my dvd player its piracy. If i use a marker on the cd its piracy. If i fly the jolly roger while wearing an eyepatch and singing yo ho yo ho its piracy. What if i have 2 computers is that piracy... its just plain stupid paranoia i swear.


This argument should be loved. If you own your computer and your DVD player, it's not piracy, you own both. If you allow someone to view it without copying, it's not piracy, no fees have been paid post purchase. If you mark your own cd, it's not piracy, you own the CD. If you fly the Jolly Roger and wear an eye-patch, it's not piracy, it's silliness. If you have 2 computers that you own, that's not piracy, this great company gave you permission to put them on both.

If you make an illegal installation of the game on a computer that is not yours while you still have it installed on your computer, that is piracy! If you give your copy away and uninstall it from your computer, that is not piracy. Stealing is piracy. Two copies on seperately owned computers is not legal according to the agreement with the software publisher. That would be piracy!

Gotta' love those posts justify piracy! Doh...

Personally, I would rather Stardock got my money than pirate anything. I have to deal with a bunch of crappy protection stuff even though I have never stolen software in my life. I would rather Stardock took my money and made more wonderful games with it. It's an investment in my view, and if I like the game, one I am more than willing to make.

This is a wonderful game, thanks Stardock.

Ps- I paid for my digital downloaded copy and don't plan on using my new copy that just arrived to install on anyone else's computer. THAT WOULD BE PIRACY!!!
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TitanTen2
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Reply #13 March 1, 2006 8:00:14 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Not a proper analogy. If you really want to use the DVD comparison, than what we are talking about is similar to making a copy of the DVD and handing it to your friend to use.


Oh i know, just posted out of fury for my hatred of the recent super ligitory culture we live in. Want to eat a lollypop? Nope sorry cant call it a lollypop thats been trademarked. Want to borrow my copy of X-com? nope dont want to get sued by Atari.

Sorry im being an A-hole, but we teach our kids to share and be nice, but now we cant share anything or we get sued. Not advocating piracy, just against hipocrisy.

Im really not trying to justify Piracy *looks up one post* just the word and how "EVIL" it is to society is over used and overblown. Its the same reason i hate republicans, they use the word "Liberal" like its a cuss word. Just a philosophical argument against overblown negative conotations. Piracy is Theft, call it theft... last time i stole something (pop from my roommate ) wasnt as bad as murdering and raping innocent seafarers in the caribbean.
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Reply #14 March 1, 2006 8:04:26 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
I love this arguement. Its like if i let someone borrow my dvd its piracy, if i play it on my computer then on my dvd player its piracy.


That argument is irrelevant. The permissions granted for a DVD are not the same as for a game, even if they come on similar media.

What if i have 2 computers is that piracy.


As per the EULA, you can install GC2 on multiple machines that you own, provided that only one copy of GC2 is in use at a time (or something to that effect).
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Sunjah_Kahn
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #15 March 1, 2006 8:05:23 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Not advocating piracy, just against hipocrisy.


Actually, that did sound very much like you were advocating piracy.

To me, anyway.
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fsk5809
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Reply #16 March 1, 2006 8:07:28 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Let him play it for a few hours on your PC, and if he likes it tell him to buy his own copy.
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Reply #17 March 1, 2006 8:08:53 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Oh i know, just posted out of fury for my hatred of the recent super ligitory culture we live in. Want to eat a lollypop? Nope sorry cant call it a lollypop thats been trademarked. Want to borrow my copy of X-com? nope dont want to get sued by Atari.

Sorry im being an A-hole, but we teach our kids to share and be nice, but now we cant share anything or we get sued. Not advocating piracy, just against hipocrisy.

I agree to a degree. However, the post started describing the way this guy wants to continue to play the game while giving it to his friend to play simulatenously. That's not exactly borrowing.
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TitanTen2
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Reply #18 March 1, 2006 8:14:18 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
[quoteActually, that did sound very much like you were advocating piracy.]


Sorry my intended meaning is vague haha. Do I think Theft is wrong? Yup. Do i think its evil? Depends...

I get heated when ever I hear the P word... upsets me to no end.


Maybe ill start using the word Genocide to mean jaywalking and spend hundreds of millions of dollars combating that evil "Genocide"

Piracy = murder
sharing cd's = theft

Thats my issue haha (well my main one...)
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NErG
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Reply #19 March 1, 2006 8:54:06 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Learn to speak legalese.

pi·ra·cy
n. pl. pi·ra·cies

1. Robbery committed at sea.
A. A similar act of robbery, as the hijacking of an airplane.

***2. The unauthorized use or reproduction of copyrighted or patented material: software piracy. ***

3. The operation of an unlicensed, illegal radio or television station.


Don't get heated, that is the dictionary definition of the word.
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RonLugge
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Reply #20 March 1, 2006 8:57:41 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Actually, that did sound very much like you were advocating piracy.

To me, anyway.


I think the problem here is the lack of tone in a visual medium
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Sunjah_Kahn
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Reply #21 March 1, 2006 9:03:54 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Murder = The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice

killing a life...not using software (???)


Theft = The act or an instance of stealing; larceny

how is stealing borrowing?

I will buy you a dictionary if you really want to know what these words mean, but please don't post saying piracy ain't that bad of a thing, but, uh, oh, you don't really understand what I am saying.

The example starting this thread was piracy. Guy was nice enough to ask, good for him. If it's done, that would be piracy which all of us good paying people have to suffer because of.
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Reply #22 March 1, 2006 9:12:54 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Alright, I'll just tell my friend to wait a bit longer and download the demo. In fact, I am actually thinking of buying another copy of the game that I can use to lend to other people exclusively. I've been thinking about that for a while, since my preordered copy didn't turn out to be a Collector's Edition. After seeing how good the game is, I just want that silver box that everyone's been talking about.
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Reply #23 March 2, 2006 1:15:00 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Question, would you borrow / lend your wife to your friend to play with? Of course not...I LOVE galciv 2 and wouldn't borrow it to anyone, not even my mother...except of course if she makes me my favorite meal, yummy for mommy
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octaviusviii
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Reply #24 March 2, 2006 2:21:28 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
To be nice allow your friend to play on your computer.

He is either curious and wants to see if he will spend money on it...

Or he is looking to take advantage and simply have another pirated game to add to his collection.

I say this because you are college students with limited money. If you can get something for free you most likely will as a college student. Your friend will then take the next 50$ of game money he gets down the line and spend it on a StarForce copy protected product because he couldn't get a hacked version of it. Thus another moron has unwittedly supported evil drm and hurt those who don't use drm.

You could let him borrow it and he might buy a copy or he may not. There is no way of truly knowing if it would be a lost sale or not. However the principle of the matter is: your friend should not be getting an experience many have toiled for three years on and others have paid stardock compensation for. It's unfair to those who made the product, unfair to the users who paid for it , and it is at its core morally incorrect even if the product exists in an abstract form.

drm in all reality is probably the dumbest invention ever. (I mean really where is the cost benifit of pissing off your user base while failing miserably at stopping a bunch of people from using your product that probably would never have paid for it in the first place? The only real benifit drm has is double and triple dipping the average customer) In order to limit drm or eliminate it from most products then non drm products need to succeed. Abusing non drm products will ultimately seal our fate into a Media Nazi era.

It could also be argued that friend who free loaded may yet become a faithful customer because he will remember the game at the least and will buy the next version or other products the company made. Thus negating the effects of him free loading and in a way he has made restitution. But this is a wildcard. A company not recieving enough compensation for their work within a certain timeframe can kill the company.

Also software piracy is such a complex topic and not all analogies are applicable to all products. By the way REAL piracy is when one profits off the product of another. Such as burning millions of crack copies of a software and selling it for 5 us dollars in Hongkong or China. So you have people willing to pay for a product but they are giving thier money to the wrong people. Of course this is wrong moraly but from a business perspective does this still really add up to lost sales and revenue? It doesn't if the Chinese people were to poor to buy a real version of the software and would rather go without than paying 200+ us dollers for a copy of brandx business software.

This is why Microsoft sells windows at an incredibly low low price( something like 30$ or so) in china to help prevent piracy. They just choose to get what they can get out of the market there. Trying to sell windows for the same price as in the US in China would net very few sales and encourage piracy.

I could go on an on but I won't. People just need to realize Intelectual Property and software is a virtual thing and thus requires virtual guidlines to keep its creation an econmically viable form of work. IP and software requires the good will of people and their desire to support those who took the time to create something wonderful for them.
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Nastavnik
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Reply #25 March 2, 2006 4:57:40 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Sorry to stick my head in the lion's whatever, but I tend to agree with Titan Ten. the concept of Piracy is used far too often.

Before I get shot here, the way he was, I'd like to say I have bought it (though I realise that everyone says so evenif they didn't). And I'm actually about to buy it again, since I cannot make a backup that will be installable in a computer without internet connection. It is not possible so far . So in the end the game will have costed me my totalgaming subscritption plus 30$ of bow upgrade plus s/h to France (where by the way the game isn't even sold as far as I can tell).

Now to the point. I think you all need to have a little more balance in this subject. So what about a book? Lending it to a friend is piracy ? It definetly hurts the author... but we all do it. Everyone used to make tapes of discs and copy LPdiscs to friends as well. Or record songs from the radio. Noone ever went broke because of that.

What is the difference between letting him lend the game to a friend, which he could have done (provided he had the game on a CD) , friend who will not have the possibilty to install any upgrads or new components that stardock created for us Legal buyers, and lending the cd of another game, that he wouldn't be playing anymore? So if I understand correctly noone here has ever lended a game to anyone? That's nice...

Now in the case of galciv, specially considering there is no demo yet (as far as I know, and if there is I stand corrected) , lending it could encourage the person to buy it, no? And what difference would there be if I invited some friend of mine to come play at my home, on my internet connected and SDC verified computer, my copy of the game, whenever he wants? specially since I only have time to play a few hours a week. I went to my parents house in the country for the week end, and could not install the game, as I said, which was a bit irritating. What evil would have come from letting my little brother try it out, event thought we are not in the same house anymore (there is like 15 years between us)?

I'm just saying, alittle more moderation in the reactions would be nice. Ii come to these forums since march 2003 and they are usually very friendly.

(duck and cover )
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