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Justifying Spying

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Dr Guy
Dr Guy
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #26 February 8, 2006 5:07:40 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

I though Gonzales was the head lawman in the US, not his lawyer.

Actually you are wrong.  It was not Gonzales' lawyer!

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Dr Guy
Dr Guy
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Reply #27 February 8, 2006 5:08:25 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Do people who are calling for impeachment of Prs. Bush over this realize that they are saying that all the enemy has to do is route their phone calls (and other communication) through the U.S. and our own Constitution will protect them?

Sounds like it.

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Dr Guy
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Reply #28 February 8, 2006 5:09:25 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

There are legal ways to do the same thing. If there are not, then congress is willing to help them do it legally by changing FISA.

Once again for the slow. Congress cannot pass a law usurping the constitution.  FISA cannot trump the constitution.  period

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Dr Guy
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Reply #29 February 8, 2006 5:10:47 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

do those people who defend the president realize they're telling bush and gonzales they can pretty much do anything they want as long as they can somehow cloak it in the memory of 911?

Hmmmmm.....want some ketchup with that foot leather?

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Dr Guy
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Reply #30 February 8, 2006 5:11:30 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

They do not have to "cloak it" in 9/11. Please refer to the constituion and the war powers given to the president by it. Article 2, I believe.

Someone finally posts a pertinent link!  Thank you Doc!

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Dr Guy
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Reply #31 February 8, 2006 5:13:10 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Realistically, FISA should be struck down as unconstitutional. Any time a "law" tries to limit a constitutional granted power, it's bad law.

Exactly!  2 cookies for the Doc!  The only reason it has not is that no one has challenged it!  It will be if necessary, but as long as every president since Carter has ignored it, and congress does not have the cojones to challenge them, it wont be!

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Dr Guy
ParaTed2k
Join Date 12/2004
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Reply #32 February 8, 2006 5:26:07 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
That's not true. It isn't simply a case if THIS VS. THAT. There are legal ways to do the same thing. If there are not, then congress is willing to help them do it legally by changing FISA. They already did what Bush wanted them to in changing FISA when they passed the Patriot Act. If Bush wants more latitude there are ways to get it. But for an administration that has tirelessly beat the "Nation of Laws" and "Rule of Law" drums, it's disingenuous to go about this the way they have.


So, do you back the patriot act?
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Dr Guy
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Reply #33 February 8, 2006 5:31:23 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
with that outta the way, do those people who defend the president realize they're telling bush and gonzales they can pretty much do anything they want as long as they can somehow cloak it in the memory of 911? on it's own that would be bad enough. unfortunately, all this drama diverts our attention from--and depletes energies which could be much better spent preparing for--the next attack.


Absolutely not Kingbee. In fact Prs. Bush NEVER attempted to go behind ANYONE's back. He reported his actions to Congress years ago. This whole smoke screen about "outrage" is just political posturing from elected officials who are mugging for the camera.

They don't care about the Constitutional mandate that makes the president the Commander In Chief. Congress as already exercised their part of the war situation. They don't get to decide how the president does his job. They declared war (even if they were too spineless to use the scary word "war"), they voted to fund the war, they're job is done, unless they want to stop funding it.

Now they are whining.

The cowards in Congress need to stand behind their own actions and quit acting like infants.
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Dr Guy
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Reply #34 February 8, 2006 6:12:06 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Actually you are wrong. It was not Gonzales' lawyer!


So who said it?

You said "The head of the Justice Department's Office of Legal Council". Who is in charge of the Justice Dept? Gonzales! Therefore it is one of his lawyers.

Realistically, FISA should be struck down as unconstitutional. Any time a "law" tries to limit a constitutional granted power, it's bad law.


The great legal mind has spoken!

Please enlighten us by telling is exactly how it tries to limit a constitutional power. Please break it down very clearly for those us who don't posess the keen legal mind like yours.
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Dr Guy
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Reply #35 February 8, 2006 6:41:01 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

You said "The head of the Justice Department's Office of Legal Council". Who is in charge of the Justice Dept? Gonzales! Therefore it is one of his lawyers.

I did not say when!  The answer will follow tomorrow!  Need a towel?

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Dr Guy
Deference
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Reply #36 February 8, 2006 9:34:24 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
You love being a shit stirrer! - Doc Guy

Thanks.

I always appreciate a good sport and the understanding he brings with him.
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Dr Guy
drmiler
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Reply #37 February 9, 2006 9:58:55 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
great legal mind has spoken!

Please enlighten us by telling is exactly how it tries to limit a constitutional power. Please break it down very clearly for those us who don't posess the keen legal mind like yours.


Break it down yourself. I'm not here to do all the work for you...do your own. Go read article 2 of the constitution concerning the war powers given the president and then go read FISA.
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Dr Guy
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Reply #38 February 9, 2006 12:17:32 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

always appreciate a good sport and the understanding he brings with him.

Actually, just a small correction tho, while the government may be filled with Neo COnservatives (by your definition), most on JU dont like the big spenders either.

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Dr Guy
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Reply #39 February 9, 2006 12:18:33 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Break it down yourself. I'm not here to do all the work for you...do your own. Go read article 2 of the constitution concerning the war powers given the president and then go read FISA.

I think all congressmen (and women) should have to pass a test on the constitution before taking office.

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Dr Guy
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Reply #40 February 9, 2006 12:34:12 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
most on JU dont like the big spenders either - Doc Guy

I wish it was reflected more often in posts, but I take your word for it.
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Dr Guy
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Reply #41 February 9, 2006 4:26:16 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

I wish it was reflected more often in posts, but I take your word for it.

Well, granted they are not common.  Mostly because the conservatives are battling the hate Bushes.  But you can find them.  Most of us, (Drmiler, Gideon - he is libertarian, bakerstreet, and I) have spoken out about it.  Most of us are conservatives. and not republicans.

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Dr Guy
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Reply #42 February 9, 2006 10:30:17 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Mostly because the conservatives are battling the hate Bushes. - Doc Guy

I can certainly understand that with Col. Gene floating around. It can be hard to criticize one's own when others are already doing it.


But you can find them. Most of us, (Drmiler, Gideon - he is libertarian, bakerstreet, and I) have spoken out about it. Most of us are conservatives. and not republicans.- Doc Guy

I've had a very difficult time seeing you, Drmiler, and Bakerstreet as 'conservative' and have mostly seen you as simply being 'Bush Backers', defending the poor guy's administration policies at any cost. As I've mentioned before, I voted for Pres. Bush first term and participated in volunteer work to aide in his election - needless to say, I've been very disappointed by nearly everything except, of course, the Supreme Court Justice appointments.

I've severe respect for Bakerstreet (though, I understand he might question the veracity of the statement), am heartened by drmiler's turnaround from his first days here (barely a year ago) and, of course, certainly understand Gideon as 'The Libertarian' of the site with some conservative leanings.

As for you, Doc, I'll take you at your word.

I believe one of the main differences at this site between myself and other conservatives here is that I am much more apt to call for accountability and much more critical of 'my own' as I've seen our representatives not holding true to what I believe to be conservative principles and, instead, being led by so-called 'neo-conservatives'.

I think blaming liberals for the ills of the country or framing every 'debate' here at JU in an 'Us v. Them' paradigm is tragic. It ignores the real issue and fails to call upon the actual people in power - the GOP.

"Liberals" are not in power and I don't see them as the group to waste time blogging about when we could be pressuring our own to hold true.

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